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Metabolically, what happens to the ALA that is not converted to EPA? and the LA that is not converted to GLA?
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Flax Oil sucks - Fish oil Rules - Dr. Barry Sears
- Thread starter SirWanksalot
- Start date
i just bought some fish liver oil from a nearby chinese drugstore and it comes in 500 capsule packs. its really cheap but the capsules are like 1/4 size of a normal 1g fish oil capsule. what i wana know is if this fish liver oil gives out EFA's. the only thing written at the back is that each fluid ounce contains Vit. A 60,000 I.U. and Vit D 6,000 I.U.
it doesnt say anything about EPA or DHA ... could i safely conclude that all fish liver oil's already contain EPA/DHA thus givng out Omega-3 Fatty Acids ?
thanks !
it doesnt say anything about EPA or DHA ... could i safely conclude that all fish liver oil's already contain EPA/DHA thus givng out Omega-3 Fatty Acids ?
thanks !
SirWanksalot
New member
Yes, most cod liver oil is sold as vit a and d suppliment and does not list the omega oils content.
I'm doing a tb-spoon every morning for 2.5grams omega oils
===================
Dr. Barry Sears
Fish oil research for years has confirmed the importance of Omega-3 fats in the prevention and treatment of heart disease. However, when we get into inflammatory conditions and neurological conditions, the amounts required become far greater.
In terms of heart disease, we know that one gram a day of pharmaceutical grade Omega-3 fatty acids reduces sudden death by nearly 50 percent.
We also know that 10 grams a day of long-chain Omega-3 fatty acids has a dramatic effect in the treatment of bipolar depression. And we know that 18 grams a day of pharmaceutical grade Omega-3 fats can reduce the wasting condition in cancer patients.
To put these levels in perspective, a tablespoon of cod liver oil would provide about 2 1/2 grams a day of Omega-3 fats and current intake of these fats by Americans is only 125 milligrams per day.
I'm doing a tb-spoon every morning for 2.5grams omega oils
===================
Dr. Barry Sears
Fish oil research for years has confirmed the importance of Omega-3 fats in the prevention and treatment of heart disease. However, when we get into inflammatory conditions and neurological conditions, the amounts required become far greater.
In terms of heart disease, we know that one gram a day of pharmaceutical grade Omega-3 fatty acids reduces sudden death by nearly 50 percent.
We also know that 10 grams a day of long-chain Omega-3 fatty acids has a dramatic effect in the treatment of bipolar depression. And we know that 18 grams a day of pharmaceutical grade Omega-3 fats can reduce the wasting condition in cancer patients.
To put these levels in perspective, a tablespoon of cod liver oil would provide about 2 1/2 grams a day of Omega-3 fats and current intake of these fats by Americans is only 125 milligrams per day.
SirWanksalot
New member
http://groups.google.com/[email protected]&rnum=1
Heres a few posts by a true expert on the subject Elzi VOLK
From: Elzi Volk ([email protected])
Subject: Re: Fish Oil - Elzi/Lyle?
Newsgroups: misc.fitness.weights
Lyle McDonald <[email protected]> wrote:
>>Kevin wrote:
>>I've been taking Optimum Nutrition's fish oil caps which say to
>>take 1 or 2 per day. Each capsule contains 1 gram of fish oil,
>>so that only amounts to 1 or 2 grams/day. I remember Elzi
>>saying that he puts his athletes on around 10g of fish oil per
>>day. Should I be taking up to 10 of these capsules a day?
>>What's the optimum dosage for fat loss?
>> Thank you
>The general dose used in the studies is 6 g/day or fish oils (that
>is 6x1 g capsules, not 6000 mg of active fish oils).
For fat loss specifically, the 'optimum' dose is unknown. In the one
study where fat loss was greater in the treated group (fish oil +
hypocaloric diet), the intake of omega-3 (n-3) fatty acids was only
3.65 g/day. Note that using the n-3 dose (or concentration) is
better than relying on fish oil. You will have to refer to the specific
product that you use to deterimine how many gram capsules to
take depending on the concentration of EPA and DHA.
>Elzi (who is a she, by the way) uses more herself but that's for
>injury related reasons. If she's said she puts the folks she
>trains on 10 g/day, I'd be surprised but I won't swear to it.
The last time I checked, I was a 'she.'
My use of pharmacological doses of fish oil are for treating
osteoarthritis. My intake is typically 12-16 g/day. My clients who
are using fish oil take from 4-8 g/day.
>I can't tell you why the bottles would say only 1-2/day. My
>guess is simply the general concern about litigation as well as
>the simple fact taht the bottle lasts longer that way (so the
>consumer gets a higherperceived value out of it).
I can tell you why: because of DHEAS and FDA regulations. I
posted the update on that issue several months ago. They
require manufacturers and products to state that consumers
should not take anymore than 2 (or was it 3?) grams per day.
During my visit the the chemistry library today, I found a
symposium proceedings addressing omega-3 fatty acids. The
recommended intakes of n-3s range from a minimum of 0.2
percent of energy to 1.25 g per day. Current estimated intakes
are around 100-200 mg/day. Compare that to the recommended
400-1250 mg/day.
Also, if you are taking any more than a few capsules of fish oil per
day, you may want to increase your vitamin E intake. The
evidence is stronger that increased PUFA intake depletes
antioxidant substances in the plasma (it would be interesting to
see the corresponding tissue concentrations of antioxidants, e.g.
liver, etc).
And, if PA reads this, there were several chapters on deodorizing
fish/marine oils. Interesting...... If you are interested in these
chapters, I can copy them for you. I'll be in the Chem building
three days/week for some time. Hmmmmm.... maybe I'll run into
Clint..
Elzi
Heres a few posts by a true expert on the subject Elzi VOLK
From: Elzi Volk ([email protected])
Subject: Re: Fish Oil - Elzi/Lyle?
Newsgroups: misc.fitness.weights
Lyle McDonald <[email protected]> wrote:
>>Kevin wrote:
>>I've been taking Optimum Nutrition's fish oil caps which say to
>>take 1 or 2 per day. Each capsule contains 1 gram of fish oil,
>>so that only amounts to 1 or 2 grams/day. I remember Elzi
>>saying that he puts his athletes on around 10g of fish oil per
>>day. Should I be taking up to 10 of these capsules a day?
>>What's the optimum dosage for fat loss?
>> Thank you
>The general dose used in the studies is 6 g/day or fish oils (that
>is 6x1 g capsules, not 6000 mg of active fish oils).
For fat loss specifically, the 'optimum' dose is unknown. In the one
study where fat loss was greater in the treated group (fish oil +
hypocaloric diet), the intake of omega-3 (n-3) fatty acids was only
3.65 g/day. Note that using the n-3 dose (or concentration) is
better than relying on fish oil. You will have to refer to the specific
product that you use to deterimine how many gram capsules to
take depending on the concentration of EPA and DHA.
>Elzi (who is a she, by the way) uses more herself but that's for
>injury related reasons. If she's said she puts the folks she
>trains on 10 g/day, I'd be surprised but I won't swear to it.
The last time I checked, I was a 'she.'
My use of pharmacological doses of fish oil are for treating
osteoarthritis. My intake is typically 12-16 g/day. My clients who
are using fish oil take from 4-8 g/day.
>I can't tell you why the bottles would say only 1-2/day. My
>guess is simply the general concern about litigation as well as
>the simple fact taht the bottle lasts longer that way (so the
>consumer gets a higherperceived value out of it).
I can tell you why: because of DHEAS and FDA regulations. I
posted the update on that issue several months ago. They
require manufacturers and products to state that consumers
should not take anymore than 2 (or was it 3?) grams per day.
During my visit the the chemistry library today, I found a
symposium proceedings addressing omega-3 fatty acids. The
recommended intakes of n-3s range from a minimum of 0.2
percent of energy to 1.25 g per day. Current estimated intakes
are around 100-200 mg/day. Compare that to the recommended
400-1250 mg/day.
Also, if you are taking any more than a few capsules of fish oil per
day, you may want to increase your vitamin E intake. The
evidence is stronger that increased PUFA intake depletes
antioxidant substances in the plasma (it would be interesting to
see the corresponding tissue concentrations of antioxidants, e.g.
liver, etc).
And, if PA reads this, there were several chapters on deodorizing
fish/marine oils. Interesting......
If you are interested in thesechapters, I can copy them for you. I'll be in the Chem building
three days/week for some time. Hmmmmm.... maybe I'll run into
Clint..
Elzi
SirWanksalot
New member
another
http://groups.google.com/[email protected]&rnum=2
From: Elzi Volk ([email protected])
Subject: Re: To Elzi: Fish oil AND Flax oil?
Newsgroups: misc.fitness.weights
Date: 2000-11-25 11:01:00 PST
"Lau Hansen" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Elzi, you have recommended fish oil when dieting because the
>n-3 fatty acids in the fish oil have shown to prevent the body
>from going in starvation - correct?
No.
I advocate fish oil for several reasons, some of which are highly
individual. Omega-3 FAs are well documented to modulate cell
function and metabolism, with the following effects:
1) ratio of n-6, n-3 and cholesterol influences structural and
functional properties of cell membranes. n-3 increases fluidity and
possibly protein/receptor sensitivity in the membranes.
2) n-3s compete with n-6 to produce anti-inflammatory
eicosanoids.
3) production and release of several cytokines and other immune
system mediators are suppressed.
4) n-3s upregulate UCP1 in adipose tissue.
5) n-3 downregulates fatty acid synthase in white adipose tissue
The overall response to n-3 supplementation is:
1) improves various pathophysiological states, such as
cardiovascular disease, psoriasis, inflammatory conditions
2) improves post-injury and post-operative response, both stress
and immune status.
3) alters lipogenic activity in adipose tissue with a decrease in fat
mass in both animal and human subjects.
4) increases glucose clearance by upregulating GLUT4 transport
(although I suspect that may be more a function of incorporation
of GLUT4 transporters into the membrane).
5) possibly counteracting the muscle insulin resistance induced by
high muscle TG content (a source of muscle tissue insulin
resistance in obese people)
>As I have come to understand you say to stay on fish oil like 7
>days (low calories), then switch to flax for 2-3 days (high carb,
>above maintainance calories) - is that correct?
Depends on the individual's overall diet and fat mass. If food
sources of n-6 are relatively high and sources of n-3 are low,
there may be no need to switch. My only concern is the research
that showed downregulation of leptin in animal and huiman
subjects on high 0-3 supplementation. However, the data was
not adjusted for loss of fat mass, so this may just be a correlation
and less of causation. Nevertheless, leptin *is* a cytokine, so my
concern still remains. In folks carrying large amounts of fat mass,
this would not be an overwhelming concern as their plasma levels
are high anyway. Those who are relatively lean and where a
sustained energy deficit will result in decreased levels of leptin,
the effect of n-3 on leptin levels is more of a concern.
>But haven't flax oil also shown to prevent the starvation mode
>when dieting? why should one not take fish AND flax oil at the
>same time? how many grams of eicosapentaenoic acid and
>docosahexaenoic acid are necessary per day? My fish oil
>contains about. 1,5 grams of n-3 fatty acids per 15ml.
I'll have to pull out the relevant studies to see if I can extrapolate
effective dosages. I use pharmacological dosages of 10-16 g/day
to treat a chronic inflammation problem. I also derive a small
amount of n-6 from the fish oil and other sources, such as animal
products and vegetables, but it is limited.
If I don't address the issue above by Monday, remind me. Have
several projects going on right now.
Elzi
http://groups.google.com/[email protected]&rnum=2
From: Elzi Volk ([email protected])
Subject: Re: To Elzi: Fish oil AND Flax oil?
Newsgroups: misc.fitness.weights
Date: 2000-11-25 11:01:00 PST
"Lau Hansen" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Elzi, you have recommended fish oil when dieting because the
>n-3 fatty acids in the fish oil have shown to prevent the body
>from going in starvation - correct?
No.
I advocate fish oil for several reasons, some of which are highly
individual. Omega-3 FAs are well documented to modulate cell
function and metabolism, with the following effects:
1) ratio of n-6, n-3 and cholesterol influences structural and
functional properties of cell membranes. n-3 increases fluidity and
possibly protein/receptor sensitivity in the membranes.
2) n-3s compete with n-6 to produce anti-inflammatory
eicosanoids.
3) production and release of several cytokines and other immune
system mediators are suppressed.
4) n-3s upregulate UCP1 in adipose tissue.
5) n-3 downregulates fatty acid synthase in white adipose tissue
The overall response to n-3 supplementation is:
1) improves various pathophysiological states, such as
cardiovascular disease, psoriasis, inflammatory conditions
2) improves post-injury and post-operative response, both stress
and immune status.
3) alters lipogenic activity in adipose tissue with a decrease in fat
mass in both animal and human subjects.
4) increases glucose clearance by upregulating GLUT4 transport
(although I suspect that may be more a function of incorporation
of GLUT4 transporters into the membrane).
5) possibly counteracting the muscle insulin resistance induced by
high muscle TG content (a source of muscle tissue insulin
resistance in obese people)
>As I have come to understand you say to stay on fish oil like 7
>days (low calories), then switch to flax for 2-3 days (high carb,
>above maintainance calories) - is that correct?
Depends on the individual's overall diet and fat mass. If food
sources of n-6 are relatively high and sources of n-3 are low,
there may be no need to switch. My only concern is the research
that showed downregulation of leptin in animal and huiman
subjects on high 0-3 supplementation. However, the data was
not adjusted for loss of fat mass, so this may just be a correlation
and less of causation. Nevertheless, leptin *is* a cytokine, so my
concern still remains. In folks carrying large amounts of fat mass,
this would not be an overwhelming concern as their plasma levels
are high anyway. Those who are relatively lean and where a
sustained energy deficit will result in decreased levels of leptin,
the effect of n-3 on leptin levels is more of a concern.
>But haven't flax oil also shown to prevent the starvation mode
>when dieting? why should one not take fish AND flax oil at the
>same time? how many grams of eicosapentaenoic acid and
>docosahexaenoic acid are necessary per day? My fish oil
>contains about. 1,5 grams of n-3 fatty acids per 15ml.
I'll have to pull out the relevant studies to see if I can extrapolate
effective dosages. I use pharmacological dosages of 10-16 g/day
to treat a chronic inflammation problem. I also derive a small
amount of n-6 from the fish oil and other sources, such as animal
products and vegetables, but it is limited.
If I don't address the issue above by Monday, remind me. Have
several projects going on right now.
Elzi
SirWanksalot
New member
I see a few current flax seed oil threads going, So i'm bumping this for reference
BUMP
Sirwanksalot
BUMP
Sirwanksalot
SirWanksalot
New member
bump again
