ECA causes muscle wasting...

[BigAndy]

when doing cardio first thing in the morning on an empty stomach , fuel has to come from somewhere ie muscle, glycogen and fat. Fasting increases GH levels which preserve muscle and burn fat. However a beta agonist such as ECA switches off GH release, and your body now as to use another system to break down fat so it raise cortisol which scavangers valuable muscle tissue, it must be said that the ECA increase noradrenaline release which has certain muscle preserving qualaties , but this is far outweighed by the cortisol release . A better thermogenic would be 40g of pure protein immediately before and after training, as this induces hypoglycemia and increases blood amino acid levels both of which increase GH secretion.

As per usual i expect someone who swears by ECA (which i agree burns fat but doesnt do a very good job at preserving muscle) to find fault with my argument, but i know from experience and research that i am spot on

 

[Myo-genetic]

That is one of the paradoxes of clen and ECA. My personal feelings are that they should only be used for a couple of weeks at a time during extreme dieting. After two weeks you start to see the cortisol buildup which is the dual edged sword.

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[chillin408]

if this were true why do people go out of their way to do morning cardio,and why do the studies show that EC groups preserve more mass than the non-EC groups,can u explain

 

[SCHNiKEN]

I would really like to see some documented evidence of this. Its not that i dont believe you ive kinda felt that way sometimes when using eca... but i thought that maybe my diet was just off... Im very interested if you have something to support what your saying..

 

[BigAndy]

For factors affecting GH release go to www.t-mag.net/html/body_127gh/html , as for ECA increase cortisol just look up any article on the effects of ephedrine and youll see that its mechanism causes secrection of ACTH(which leads to cortisol release). Oh And another fact "caffeine significantly increases cortisol" just do a search on yahoo using those exact words and youll see the scientific proof

 

[Neo_born]

What the fluff is ECA ???

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[Hot Bod]

I tend to agree with you Big Andy. But, I wonder if the right diet and slow down or stop that process. I take a protein shake before and after morning workouts so that I don't burn muscle. It's seems to work, even when on ECA. I think ECA and a low calorie diet will burn fat and muscle. It's happened to me before. I tend to think that clen is more effective, because it has anti-catabolic effects.

 

[BigAndy69]

Originally posted by Neo_born:
What the fluff is ECA ???

Ephedrine, Caffeine, Asprin

 

[riskybiz007]

just wondering if Norephedrine acts in the same way as Ephedrine, producing more cortisol and acting catabolic like ephedrine??

 

[chillin408]

yea norephedrine is very similar to ephedrine,so i would guess it does the same thing in that ephedrine does in terms of cortisol,and also just about everything else,the only differences are ive heard it suppresses appetite more and is less stimulatory,but i am not sure of this ,i just heard it,also i think syntrax and biotest claim its more thermogenic(it might be,but very slightly,i think its half life is longer,that could be good or bad depending on your gaols)

bigandy i remember when u posted this topic awhile back,and i asked a knowledgable person about this and he gave me a great explanation,but due to my recklessness i accidently did not save the email,but i remember parts of what he said,he said something along the lines of some cortisol must always be present,and that excercise stimulates cortisol,so that means if your worried this much about cortisol u should stop excercising,also he told me about the drug cytradon(the drug that lowers cortisol or completes stops it,something along those lines) and how bodybuilders thought it would be a miracle drug,but it ended up doing barely anything or nothing,and people on it could not even lift weights because their joints hurt soo bad