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Anyone here take tribulus?
- Thread starter Chaddycakes
- Start date
zips92
New member
lifterforlife, you and I are certainly living in different worlds and that's fine for us. I am 37 years old, and probably like you, I have been a fitness/lifting junkie, and dedicated athlete my entire life. This is genuinely the first time I have ever heard a recommendation like this, and this is not consistent with bodybuilding philosophy I have absorbed over 20 years from trainers, strength coaches, professional bodybuilders, amateur bodybuilders and knowledgeble AAS users.
I will practice and advocate intensity, rest and recovery over frequency any day to any serious bodybuilder, and your method to a golfer, tennis player or basketball player, etc. There are certainly places for both philosophies, I fully understand. Please do not take that as patronizing. I realize you obviously have some conviction about this, and that is great, and I respect that, I just do not agree with it.
Hopefully the original poster received some good information about tribulus before this thread went off on a tangent.........
I will practice and advocate intensity, rest and recovery over frequency any day to any serious bodybuilder, and your method to a golfer, tennis player or basketball player, etc. There are certainly places for both philosophies, I fully understand. Please do not take that as patronizing. I realize you obviously have some conviction about this, and that is great, and I respect that, I just do not agree with it.
Hopefully the original poster received some good information about tribulus before this thread went off on a tangent.........
Lifterforlife
New member
zips92 said:
Well, ok. I have been doing this for all of 30 yrs. Took me a long time to figure things out.
I will make you one challenge....show me even one credible paper that shows the "intensity" you speak of in your past post pertaining to the leg workout, in other words, where you work till you drop, then having to rest seven days because you taxed the CNS so badly, that this is somehow good, I will listen.
The idea is to WORK the muscle, not ANNIHLATE it!
IN the meantime, here is something you may want to read. And this was done on WELL TRAINED LIFTERS.
This microtrauma may be expected to require you to postpone your next workout until your muscles are back to normal. It is this logic that your average personal trainer will use when he/she tells you to wait, sometimes a full week, before training the same body part again. Recent research however is showing us that putting off your next workout until your muscles have "fully recovered" may not be necessary or even desirable!1,2,3 In a study performed at the University of Alabama4, two groups of subjects performed the same periodized resistance training routine either once per week or three times per week. The results showed that muscle mass increases were greater in the three workout per week group, compared to the one workout per week group. In addition, the strength increases in this group were on average 40% greater! So what does this mean to you? It means the fear of overtraining, which sometimes verges on paranoia, may be preventing you from getting the most gains you can in the gym.
1) Nosaka K, Clarkson P.M. Muscle damage following repeated bouts of high force eccentric exercise. Med. Sci. Sports Exrc., 27(9):1263-1269,1995
2) Smith LL., Fuylmer MG., Holbert D., McCammon MR., Houmard JA., Frazer DD., Nsien E., Isreal RG. The impact of repeated bout of eccentric exercise on muscular strength, muscle soreness and creatine kinase. Br J Sp Med 28(4):267-271, 1994
3) T.C. Chen, Taipei Physical Education College, and S.S. Hsieh, FACSM,. The effects of a seven-day repeated eccentric training on recovery from muscle damage. Med. Sci. Sports Exrc. 31(5 Supp) pp. S71, 1999
4) McLester JR., Bishop P., & Guilliams M. Comparison of 1 and 3 day per week of equal volume resistance training in experienced subjects. Med. Sci. Sports Exrc. 31(5 Supp) pp.S117 1999
And now tell me my post was irrelevant gjohnson. And don't just tell me I am wrong, give me something to back up your assertation again that annihlating a muscle is desirable to credibly working a muscle for hypertrophy.
Lifterforlife
New member
Originally Posted by Lifterforlife
Keep in mind that we are only talking about the physical recovery of the muscle. We are not talking about performance.
This just simply shows your intrepretation skills bro. This is precisely WHY this post is relevant! Physical recovery is indeed the crux of the discussion.
Keep in mind that we are only talking about the physical recovery of the muscle. We are not talking about performance.
gjohnson5 said:
This just simply shows your intrepretation skills bro. This is precisely WHY this post is relevant! Physical recovery is indeed the crux of the discussion.
Lifterforlife
New member
Ok, I will try now to approach this from a common sense standpoint, as it seems the scientific approach went completely over the heads.
Lets define intensity first off, shall we? What is intensity? 2 sets, 5 sets, 10 sets....hell according to your workout scenario it is more like 30 sets.
Why does it take that much to be intense? Why can't you be intense in 2 sets, 3 sets? What you failed to intrepet from the orginal study I posted was that if you do 30 reps for a set, or 10 reps, subsequent sets, even days later showed no further damage to the muscle!
So, if subsequent sets and more work does no further damage to the muscle, what are all those other sets you are doing accomplishing? What are they working? Not the muscle.
Now, tell me, why do we work out? To damage the muscle, rebuild it and hopefully it grows back bigger and stronger. Doing tons of multiple sets does not accomplish this. They are no longer working the mucle, they are taxing the CNS. You have to have to have the ability to understand how the body works to intrepet this. This is where people have trouble recovering.
When you get a pump with 3 good working sets, talking, intense, full range of mostion sets with taxing weight, do you get more of a pump if you do 10 more?
Bodybuilders are notorious for if some is good, then more is better! Bodybuilders are probably the worst abusers of anything. Supplements, training, etc.
I can present the information, it is up to those who read it to either use it or fight it. Just keep the information in the back of your head when you go to the gym next. "If you feel like you have to be carried out of the gym literally to get a good workout, then this of course will make no sense to you".
Ultimately you will do what you want, that is what free will is all about.
Lets define intensity first off, shall we? What is intensity? 2 sets, 5 sets, 10 sets....hell according to your workout scenario it is more like 30 sets.
Why does it take that much to be intense? Why can't you be intense in 2 sets, 3 sets? What you failed to intrepet from the orginal study I posted was that if you do 30 reps for a set, or 10 reps, subsequent sets, even days later showed no further damage to the muscle!
So, if subsequent sets and more work does no further damage to the muscle, what are all those other sets you are doing accomplishing? What are they working? Not the muscle.
Now, tell me, why do we work out? To damage the muscle, rebuild it and hopefully it grows back bigger and stronger. Doing tons of multiple sets does not accomplish this. They are no longer working the mucle, they are taxing the CNS. You have to have to have the ability to understand how the body works to intrepet this. This is where people have trouble recovering.
When you get a pump with 3 good working sets, talking, intense, full range of mostion sets with taxing weight, do you get more of a pump if you do 10 more?
Bodybuilders are notorious for if some is good, then more is better! Bodybuilders are probably the worst abusers of anything. Supplements, training, etc.
I can present the information, it is up to those who read it to either use it or fight it. Just keep the information in the back of your head when you go to the gym next. "If you feel like you have to be carried out of the gym literally to get a good workout, then this of course will make no sense to you".
Ultimately you will do what you want, that is what free will is all about.
Well it just depends i would say 2 - 3 times a week, and im going with lifterforlife. Very good programs like 5x5 and HST that are proven to work are both done 3x a week. However other programs like 1-6 principle are done 1x a week per body part. I have always done 2-3 a week for each body part, as of right now i do upper body 3 times a week and lower 2. I'm also not a great big fan of the 5x5 even though I know it works. In my routine i use the same methodology as it, with loading and deloading and big compound lifts. Big compound lifts are the basis of my program i have been doing for about 6 months now, however i do much more of the not so big lifts, and it works well so far for me.
If I was you i would work each body part 3 times a week or 2 depending on how much u want to workout. Also stick too B.P., Squats, and Deads. Depending on where u are in your lifting you might want to use the dual factor theory. What i mean by how far is if u have plateaued yet and how many times.
SgtSlaughter
New member
Seeing as we're way off topic already...
we are way off topic here... so here we go...
I'm a firm beliver that there is NO SET way to train, every individual recovers at different rates. With that said, over the years I've learned that working out 1 bodypart / week doesn't cut it for me. Because by the time I'm ready to work the, let's say chest, again... it's not next week and my chest is fully recovered.
I've started training MAJOR muscle groups 2x week ... and smaller, bi's, tri's, much more frequent than every before. I've noticed GREAT results. But because I do this... I do not do giant super sets, ect. Ex: bi's - Let's say it's chest day and I feel I can do a few set's of hammer curls and some alternating dumbell curls... I will do it, and they'll be fully recovered come the next day... and i'll probably do a few sets the day after that though.
This Game is all about changing things up when you DO NOT see results.
Also, another theory I've been appreciating more lately is the Mechanic and Soccer player idea i call it.
Think of a Mechanics' forearms... they ARE HUGE! ... and a soccer players calves... same... HUGE!
Why, you ask? Because they are worked extremely hard daily and the muscle is forced to grow to accept more abuse the next day. Why do you think Arnold had to train calves 45 mins a day for a few years (I think it said 3 years in his book).
Just my thoughts... impliment as you see fit
P.S. If I'm overly sore, I take time/day off as needed also... recover is key obviously I hope.
- SGT
we are way off topic here... so here we go...
I'm a firm beliver that there is NO SET way to train, every individual recovers at different rates. With that said, over the years I've learned that working out 1 bodypart / week doesn't cut it for me. Because by the time I'm ready to work the, let's say chest, again... it's not next week and my chest is fully recovered.
I've started training MAJOR muscle groups 2x week ... and smaller, bi's, tri's, much more frequent than every before. I've noticed GREAT results. But because I do this... I do not do giant super sets, ect. Ex: bi's - Let's say it's chest day and I feel I can do a few set's of hammer curls and some alternating dumbell curls... I will do it, and they'll be fully recovered come the next day... and i'll probably do a few sets the day after that though.
This Game is all about changing things up when you DO NOT see results.
Also, another theory I've been appreciating more lately is the Mechanic and Soccer player idea i call it.
Think of a Mechanics' forearms... they ARE HUGE! ... and a soccer players calves... same... HUGE!
Why, you ask? Because they are worked extremely hard daily and the muscle is forced to grow to accept more abuse the next day. Why do you think Arnold had to train calves 45 mins a day for a few years (I think it said 3 years in his book).
Just my thoughts... impliment as you see fit
P.S. If I'm overly sore, I take time/day off as needed also... recover is key obviously I hope.
- SGT
Chaddycakes
New member
Thanks again guys, I guess ill stick to working out each body part 2 times a week. However im going to try and up the intensity and go for around 3 to 4 sets( depending on which muscle group) instead of 5 for all of them.
Lifterforlife
New member
Re: Seeing as we're way off topic already...
Nice post....I am big fan of "instinctive" training. This can be utilized greatly by getting in touch with your body.
If one thinks about it, MPS is elevated after training from 24-36 hr., then returns to baseline. So you can basically spend 2 days maybe gaining, and then 3-4 days maintaining if you wait seven days for instance.
I like Sgt.'s outlook on bodyparts, almost exactly how I work them in. And, as mentioned, the best workout is changing things up.
sgtslaughter said:we are way off topic here... so here we go...
I'm a firm beliver that there is NO SET way to train, every individual recovers at different rates. With that said, over the years I've learned that working out 1 bodypart / week doesn't cut it for me. Because by the time I'm ready to work the, let's say chest, again... it's not next week and my chest is fully recovered.
I've started training MAJOR muscle groups 2x week ... and smaller, bi's, tri's, much more frequent than every before. I've noticed GREAT results. But because I do this... I do not do giant super sets, ect. Ex: bi's - Let's say it's chest day and I feel I can do a few set's of hammer curls and some alternating dumbell curls... I will do it, and they'll be fully recovered come the next day... and i'll probably do a few sets the day after that though.
This Game is all about changing things up when you DO NOT see results.
Also, another theory I've been appreciating more lately is the Mechanic and Soccer player idea i call it.
Think of a Mechanics' forearms... they ARE HUGE! ... and a soccer players calves... same... HUGE!
Why, you ask? Because they are worked extremely hard daily and the muscle is forced to grow to accept more abuse the next day. Why do you think Arnold had to train calves 45 mins a day for a few years (I think it said 3 years in his book).
Just my thoughts... impliment as you see fit
P.S. If I'm overly sore, I take time/day off as needed also... recover is key obviously I hope.
- SGT
Nice post....I am big fan of "instinctive" training. This can be utilized greatly by getting in touch with your body.
If one thinks about it, MPS is elevated after training from 24-36 hr., then returns to baseline. So you can basically spend 2 days maybe gaining, and then 3-4 days maintaining if you wait seven days for instance.
I like Sgt.'s outlook on bodyparts, almost exactly how I work them in. And, as mentioned, the best workout is changing things up.
SgtSlaughter
New member
Re: Seeing as we're way off topic already...
Thank you.
EXACTLY "instinctive" training! That's what it's all about! And being Very, VERY in touch with your body as you stated!
I don't think I've had the same workout session in 5 years, every time it's different in some way.
Lifter4Life: MPS? ... I think I know what you mean with what you stated after it, but I have no idea what that acronym stands for
- SGT
Thank you.
EXACTLY "instinctive" training! That's what it's all about! And being Very, VERY in touch with your body as you stated!
I don't think I've had the same workout session in 5 years, every time it's different in some way.
Lifter4Life: MPS? ... I think I know what you mean with what you stated after it, but I have no idea what that acronym stands for
- SGT
