Why do Tren and Winny have a synergistic effect?

[Nighthawkk]

I'm ending my enan/deca/dbol cycle with tren 75mg ED/winny 50mg ED in the last 3-4 weeks and was wondering what causes the apparent synergistic effect between the two compounds?

I've used each on it's own, though never together, and would like to know how they react when used in combination. I also have some QV prop on hand, though I'm uncertain if it will be necessary to use as the enanth tapers off. So far up 16lbs total in week 10 from this stack, so I am just looking to harden up and add some vascularity in these last few weeks leading up to PCT.

 

[DrJMW]

One possible explanation: winstrol blocks progesterone receptors. Tren acts like progesterone and causes elevated prolactin levels. Winny prevents this chain of events. I do believe that tren and winny actually stimualte the same AR's.

 

[Nighthawkk]

^

 

[BodyByFinaplix]

This apparent synergy is caused by several factors (lets see if I can explain it at 3:00 am).
1) Tren has the capacity to cross-bind with progestin receptors, which winstrol seems to be an antagonist for. By blocking some of those receptors, this leaves more trenbolone free to bind to ar's, as well as reducing some of the side effects.

2) Winstrol has been shown, in doses as low as 10 mg a day, to reduce shbg levels 50% or more. This leaves less shbg to bind to the tren, thus leaving more trenbonlone free to bind to ar's.

3) All steriods have been show to cause an upregulation in androgen receptors (ar's) in order to accomidate the total blood serum levels of androgens. By adding winstrol, one causes further upregulation. The steroids in the bloodstream compete for these receptors, but tren being the far more androgenic of the two, will tend to win the majority of the time. This gives the trenbolone more receptors to bind too, this increasing its potency. It should also be noted that winstrol, unlike other mild adrogens, is 17-aa, which means it has an effective half-life in the bloodstream of several hours, rather than several minutes. This means that despite it losing initially to tren in the competition for receptors (with only a small % of it binding without being displated by the tren), it continues to linger in the bloodstream, thus signalling the need for further upregulation. I believe, although I cannot prove it, that for this reason compounds such as winstrol and dbol may cause more rapid and more ar upregulation than other compounds. This may also account for the gains winstrol seems to cause when stacked with stronger androgens. It should also be noted taht for this reason, the winstrol stays in the bloodstream longer and has more time to bind to estragen and progestin receptors as an agonist, thus yielding its harden effects.

Just my 2 cc's...

 

[BodyByFinaplix]

I'll be starting my winstrol soon. I've found the prop/tren/winstrol stack (50 mg of each ed) to be extremely effective. I've actually made gains while cutting on this stack, on a keto diet and reduced calories, that were at least equal to using a gram of test whole on a higher calorie diet. This time I'm cosidering running it 25 mg prop/50 mg tren/75 mg of winstrol.

 

[Cypptanon]

Great posts!


Cyp

 

[Nighthawkk]

Thanks for the informative responses BBF, karma to you!

 

[jubei]

I was on prop/winny/fina but the winny was killing my joints. I dropped the winny and started dbol and upped the femara dosage, we'll see how that works.

 

[BodyByFinaplix]

jubei makes an excellent point. The tren/winstrol combo feels like someone has poured sand in your joints. I suspect your plan will work. By dropping the winstrol and adding dbol (which works very well for lubricating the joints and increasing collegen sythesis) the problem should subside. On a test/tren/dbol stack, even with letro, pumps can become a bit of a problem. I did a low dose test/tren/dbol/provirion stack as my 4th cycle and had alot of problems with pumps. I had to give up jogging, because I couldn't make it more than a mile without my calves pumping so much that I was forced to site down for 5-10 minutes.

 

[Nighthawkk]

I did a low dose test/tren/dbol/provirion stack as my 4th cycle and had alot of problems with pumps. I had to give up jogging, because I couldn't make it more than a mile without my calves pumping so much that I was forced to site down for 5-10 minutes.

I got pain in my shins during my dbol intake, even during walking sometimes...was that related to the so-called "pumps" at all? I'm a bit ignorant when it comes to stuff like that, because I never had any problems with dbol other than lethargy.