Who on here still uses nolva for PCT?

[lander2312]

OK Steve, you promised you wouldnt flame so lets discuss this. There are several reasons, in my opinion, to use Nolva.

1) This is a drug that has been tested and tested by the FDA and has decades of not only clinical trials with research data to support it but also hundreds of thousands of patients that have used it for years for its real purpose (brest cancer) so we at least know the drug is safe and effective.

2)I will give you 2 different REAL medical studies with control patients and also blood wok that supports the fact than not only does Nolva block E it also raises your Test levels
"Stimulation of calcitonin secretory capacity by increased serum levels of testosterone in men treated with tamoxifen. Int J Androl. 1987 Dec;10(6):747-51"
"Hormonal changes in tamoxifen treated men with idiopathic oligozoospermia Exp Clin Endocrinol. 1988 Dec;92(2):211-6"

those studies come to the realization that..."In hypogonadic and infertile men given nolvadex, increases in the serum levels of LH, FSH, and most importantly, testosterone were all observed"

Now I am a big fan of Nathan and have talked business with him on a few occasions. His N2 line is great and I personally use HCGenerate while on cycle to not shut down as much and to help ease PCT.
I believe that everyone is different and of course different chemicals and compounds can effect us all differently. In this post you call Nolva crap when it has true clinical trial from real medical facilities to back it up. You mention Parroting yet repeating something that has worked for AAS users all over the world for years well....
Much Love to all my Bros

 

[EssexMike]

Just finished 8 week tesp p 100mg and mast p 100 mg eod followed by a month on clomid and nolva.
I felt amazing when I was on the test and had little to no sides (bit of bacne) then started pct and fuck me it has been horrible.
My sex drive is non existent I am stroppy as fuck and down a lot of the time. Oh and my bacne is really bad, 10 times worse than on cycle.
The only positive is that my balls came back quick and my strength and hunger to train has stayed ; )
Don't think I will be using for my next pct. may try low level clomid and look into he generate etc.

 

[stevesmi]

OK Steve, you promised you wouldnt flame so lets discuss this. There are several reasons, in my opinion, to use Nolva.

1) This is a drug that has been tested and tested by the FDA and has decades of not only clinical trials with research data to support it but also hundreds of thousands of patients that have used it for years for its real purpose (brest cancer) so we at least know the drug is safe and effective.

2)I will give you 2 different REAL medical studies with control patients and also blood wok that supports the fact than not only does Nolva block E it also raises your Test levels
"Stimulation of calcitonin secretory capacity by increased serum levels of testosterone in men treated with tamoxifen. Int J Androl. 1987 Dec;10(6):747-51"
"Hormonal changes in tamoxifen treated men with idiopathic oligozoospermia Exp Clin Endocrinol. 1988 Dec;92(2):211-6"

those studies come to the realization that..."In hypogonadic and infertile men given nolvadex, increases in the serum levels of LH, FSH, and most importantly, testosterone were all observed"

Now I am a big fan of Nathan and have talked business with him on a few occasions. His N2 line is great and I personally use HCGenerate while on cycle to not shut down as much and to help ease PCT.
I believe that everyone is different and of course different chemicals and compounds can effect us all differently. In this post you call Nolva crap when it has true clinical trial from real medical facilities to back it up. You mention Parroting yet repeating something that has worked for AAS users all over the world for years well....
Much Love to all my Bros

good post, atleast you have the balls to state your position.

however your first point about it being safe and effective is iffy. just ask a breast cancer survivor. i know one on 5mg of the stuff a day and she absolutely hates it.. she got put on the stuff for 5 years. and a year into it they find out she has liver damage from it (she doesn't even drink or take any other drug) also she feels like absolute shit on it. i begged her to ask the doctor for something else but you are right, this is the drug docs give out.. but if you read online you will see it has bad sides all around for men and women so her case isn't isolated.

your point 2 i don't disagree with that its an AI. i have said this on this thread several times that it is a good AI. however my point is that there are better AI's out there that have way less side effects. if anything nolva is too strong an AI and you definately do not want to destroy your estrogen, we know this today as bodybuilders that we need estrogen to build muscle. a breast cancer survivor doesn't

 

[stevesmi]

Just finished 8 week tesp p 100mg and mast p 100 mg eod followed by a month on clomid and nolva.
I felt amazing when I was on the test and had little to no sides (bit of bacne) then started pct and fuck me it has been horrible.
My sex drive is non existent I am stroppy as fuck and down a lot of the time. Oh and my bacne is really bad, 10 times worse than on cycle.
The only positive is that my balls came back quick and my strength and hunger to train has stayed ; )
Don't think I will be using for my next pct. may try low level clomid and look into he generate etc.

yup and that is why I have evolved into a holistic pct instead. i still take a very low dose of clomid but to be honest i want to phase that out too. it does take my libido down a notch even at low levels.

if you feel like shit on pct you will muscle waste so fast cause you won't want to workout and you will feel blah the whole time.

i get acne from clomid too, pretty common.. thankfully i am not prone to acne or else it would be far worse

 

[EssexMike]

I am prone to acne on the back so would you say to stay well away from clomid even at a low dose.

 

[lander2312]

Steve, nolva isnt perfect but of course no drug is. I have been considering running the holistic pct one time to see if it works but I am hesitant for 2 reasons. One I know that Nolva works...you forgot to address how it is proven to raise natural test levels and to get your boys back to functioning. I also forgot to point out how it actually improves your lipid profile, so if you use an oral, it could be a better choice than clomid. The 2nd reason is price which goes back to issue numer one. I hate to work soo hard on diet, training, and gear only to not get my PCT right and lose half or more of my gains.

 

[Nelson Montana]

OK Steve, you promised you wouldnt flame so lets discuss this. There are several reasons, in my opinion, to use Nolva.

1) This is a drug that has been tested and tested by the FDA and has decades of not only clinical trials with research data to support it but also hundreds of thousands of patients that have used it for years for its real purpose (brest cancer) so we at least know the drug is safe and effective.
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Yes, for breast cancer, not PCT.


......................

2)I will give you 2 different REAL medical studies with control patients and also blood wok that supports the fact than not only does Nolva block E it also raises your Test levels
"Stimulation of calcitonin secretory capacity by increased serum levels of testosterone in men treated with tamoxifen. Int J Androl. 1987 Dec;10(6):747-51"
"Hormonal changes in tamoxifen treated men with idiopathic oligozoospermia Exp Clin Endocrinol. 1988 Dec;92(2):211-6"

...................

Flawed study on many levels. No time now to explain (even though I've done so on dozens of other occasions. Maybe later.


...............

those studies come to the realization that..."In hypogonadic and infertile men given nolvadex, increases in the serum levels of LH, FSH, and most importantly, testosterone were all observed"

..........


That is not correct.


............

Now I am a big fan of Nathan and have talked business with him on a few occasions. His N2 line is great and I personally use HCGenerate while on cycle to not shut down as much and to help ease PCT.
I believe that everyone is different and of course different chemicals and compounds can effect us all differently. In this post you call Nolva crap when it has true clinical trial from real medical facilities to back it up.

...........................

It's crap because it makes you feel like crap at a time when you need to feel better.




You mention Parroting yet repeating something that has worked for AAS users all over the world for years well....

.............

Actually, it hasn't. They just want to convince themselevs it has. Show me the before and after blood tests of steroid users after taking nolvadex. Even if they do get a boost in T, it doesn;t last, and then you;re right back to being where you were after the cycle.

Much Love to all my Bros

..............

 

[lander2312]

First of all let me say Nelson I respect your opinion and you have more knowledge of this game than I do but I would like to address some of the things you replied with here.

To number one...yes the tests were for breast cancer but the safety of the drug and its interaction with humans has way more track years and studies than any root or berry herbal pct designer product and thats just a fact. The majority of drugs talked about on this forum are being used for purposes other than the original intent. So with that said yes it does have a safe track record.

For number 2&3 I doubt you posses the education or clinical medical trial expertise to make the claim of a flawed study. The people who did that study werent even hoping for an increase in natural testosterone production. The y just noted that it was a side effect of the Nolva. You say its not correct but the case studies that i printed say that.

Number 4 It does make some people feel like crap while it has helped countless others. Like I stated before we all react differently to each compound. Lots of people get test flu...does that mean that Testosterone is crap?....I believe your logic flawed on this one.

Once again this is not to start a war...Steve said that it was to be a civil discussion and I def dont want to go to bant camp for not only expressing my opinion but also supporting it with case study not just internet parroting.

 

[stevesmi]

^^^ i think its a great discussion and by all means discuss away.

i will say this though and its food for thought. if your estrogen levels are high going into PCT and you run nolva and it cripples your estrogen levels then yes it makes sense that will lower estrogen it will allow your bodies testosterone levels to bounce. my point is there are better ways to do this without running something like nolva.

my way of running things is going into PCT will normal levels of estrogen cause you ran an AI during cycle. and kickstarting your HPTA with hcgenerate and/or hcg/HMG. i have found this to be far superior than going into pct with raisin nuts and high estrogen levels and running nolva or clomid. my recovery has been 3-4X faster with this method rather then the run a cycle then do nolva/clomid pct. so its more than just PCT that is important.. if you look at my tren log from last year i ran a full hormone panel and posted it up you can look it up from after PCT. i only used a very small dose of clomid with my pct to accomplish this. something like 12mg EOD.

 

[-SD-]

I dont think your poll is going as planned...