when should I start the PCT

[anabolic highlord25]

Sup again bro's, I'm currently taking 5mg (Euro Bolix) Winny 50mg ed and was wondering when to start my PCT. I'm going to take 50mg Clomid ed for about a month. When should I start to take it after my cycle, right away or should I wait
a certain amount of time?

 

[Slyder190]

3 days after your last injection. Time on=Time off is the norm. I strongly advise more research before you do another cycle.

 

[bilter]

Slyder, looks like he ran a oral winny only cycle.

I'd start PCT the day after your last dose. I agree with Slyder on the research part, check out the PCT forum and also look at threads on half lifes

 

[anabolic highlord25]

Slyder, looks like he ran a oral winny only cycle.

I'd start PCT the day after your last dose. I agree with Slyder on the research part, check out the PCT forum and also look at threads on half lifes

Yeah, I ran oral Winny only because it doesn't convert to estrogen, and my
source knows his stuff and he suggested running Clomid in order to stimulate
natural test production. Is there something wrong with this or something else I should be taking or doing? Thanks again bro's.

 

[bilter]

I've done clomid only PCT and it works fine. I run it 100mg PD for 3 days then 50mg PD for the remainder of a 4 wek PCT. I like to throw in nolva with it also though. I'm not knocking your cycle but I've never seen anyone use just winny for a cycle before. How were your results? How long did you run it?

 

[danymal04]

I've done clomid only PCT and it works fine. I run it 100mg PD for 3 days then 50mg PD for the remainder of a 4 wek PCT. I like to throw in nolva with it also though. I'm not knocking your cycle but I've never seen anyone use just winny for a cycle before. How were your results? How long did you run it?

Dude, Clomid messes up your eyesight in the long run, if I were you, I wouldn't F with that. Use Nolvadex instead...Good Luck

 

[bilter]

Dude, Clomid messes up your eyesight in the long run, if I were you, I wouldn't F with that. Use Nolvadex instead...Good Luck

I consider that to be a bunch of BS until someone can show me a study indicating that clomid can / does affect your eyesight. I'm not saying its impossible but I need to see studies. Google the sides for clomid and you'll come up with many results that all state the same.....this:
(its not even listed in the post marketing events)

SIDE EFFECTS

Clinical Events

Trial Adverse: Clomiphene citrate, at recommended dosages, is generally well tolerated. Adverse reactions usually have been mild and transient and most have disappeared promptly after treatment has been discontinued. Adverse experiences reported in patients treated with clomiphene citrate during clinical studies are shown in Table 2.

Table 2.

Incidence Of Adverse Events in Clinical Studies
((Events Greater than 1%) > n = 8029* ’)
Adverse Event


%
Ovarian Enlargement

13.6
Vasomotor Flushes

10.4
Abdominal-Pelvic Discomfort/Distention/Bloating

5.5
Nausea and Vomiting

2.2
Breast Discomfort

2.1
Visual Symptoms

Blurred vision, lights, floaters, waves, unspecified visual complaints, photophobia, diplopia, scotomata, phosphenes



1.5
Headache

1.3
Abnormal uterine Bleeding, Intermenstrual spotting, menorrhagia

1.3

Includes 498 patients whose reports may have been duplicated in the event totals and could not be distinguished as such. Also, excludes 47 patients who did not report symptom data.

The following adverse events have been reported in fewer than 1% of patients in clinical trials: Acute abdomen, appetite increase, constipation, dermatitis or rash, depression, diarrhea, dizziness, fatigue, hair loss/dry hair, increased urinary frequency/volume, insomnia, light-headedness, nervous tension, vaginal dryness, vertigo, weight gain/loss.

Patients on prolonged clomiphene citrate therapy may show elevated serum levels of desmosterol. This is most likely due to a direct interference with cholesterol synthesis. However, the serum sterols in patients receiving the recommended dose of clomiphene citrate are not significantly altered. Ovarian cancer has been infrequently reported in patients who have received fertility drugs. Infertility is a primary risk factor for ovarian cancer; however, epidemiology data suggest that prolonged use of clomiphene may increase the risk of a borderline or invasive ovarian tumor.

Postmarketing Adverse Events

The following adverse experiences were reported spontaneously with clomiphene citrate tablets USP. The cause and effect relationship of the listed events to the administration of clomiphene citrate tablets USP is not known.

Dermatologic: Acne, allergic reaction, erythema, erythema multiforme, erythema nodosum, hypertrichosis, pruritus

Central Nervous System: Migraine headache, paresthesia, seizure, stroke, syncope

Psychiatric: Anxiety, irritability, mood changes, psychosis

Visual Disorders: Abnormal accommodation, cataract, eye pain, macular edema, optic neuritis, photopsia, posterior vitreous detachment, retinal hemorrhage, retinal thrombosis, retinal vascular spasm, temporary loss of vision

Cardiovascular: Arrhythmia, chest pain, edema, hypertension, palpitation, phlebitis, pulmonary embolism, shortness of breath, tachycardia, thrombophlebitis

Musculoskeletal: Arthralgia, back pain, myalgia

Hepatic: Transaminases increased, hepatitis

Neoplasms: Liver (hepatic hemangiosarcoma, liver cell adenoma, hepatocellular carcinoma); breast (fibrocystic disease, breast carcinoma); endometrium (endometrial carcinoma); nervous system (astrocytoma, pituitary tumor, prolactinoma, neurofibromatosis, glioblastoma multiforme, brain abcess); ovary (luteoma of pregnancy, dermoid cyst of the ovary, ovarian carcinoma); trophoblastic (hydatiform mole, choriocarcinoma); miscellaneous (melanoma, myeloma, perianal cysts, renal cell carcinoma, Hodgkin’s lymphoma, tongue carcinoma, bladder carcinoma); and neoplasms of offspring (neuroectodermal tumor, thyroid tumor, hepatoblastoma, lymphocytic leukemia)

Genitourinary: Endometriosis, ovarian cyst (ovarian enlargement or cysts could, as such, be complicated by adnexal torsion), ovarian hemorrhage, tubal pregnancy, uterine hemorrhage

Body as a Whole: Fever, tinnitus, weakness

Other: Leukocytosis, th roid disorder.

Fetal/Neoastal Anomalies

The following fetal abnormalities have also been reported during postmarketing surveillance: delayed development; abnormal bone development including skeletal malformations of the skull, face, nasal passages, jaw, hand, limb (ectromelia including amelia, hemimelia, and phocomelia), foot, and joints; tissue malformations including imperforate anus, tracheoesophageal fistula, diaphragmatic hernia, renal agenesis and dysgenesis, and malformations of the eye and lens (cataract), ear, lung, heart (ventricular septal defect and tetralogy of Fallot), and genitalia; as well as dwarfism, deafness, mental retardation, chromosomal disorders, and neural tube defects (including anencephaly).

DRUG ABUSE AND DEPENDENCE

Tolerance, abuse, or dependence with clomiphene citrate tablets USP has not been reported.

 

[Reubsf]

I consider that to be a bunch of BS until someone can show me a study indicating that clomid can / does affect your eyesight. I'm not saying its impossible but I need to see studies. Google the sides for clomid and you'll come up with many results that all state the same.....this:
(its not even listed in the post marketing events)

SIDE EFFECTS

Clinical Events

Trial Adverse: Clomiphene citrate, at recommended dosages, is generally well tolerated. Adverse reactions usually have been mild and transient and most have disappeared promptly after treatment has been discontinued. Adverse experiences reported in patients treated with clomiphene citrate during clinical studies are shown in Table 2.

Table 2.

Incidence Of Adverse Events in Clinical Studies
((Events Greater than 1%) > n = 8029* ’)
Adverse Event


%
Ovarian Enlargement

13.6
Vasomotor Flushes

10.4
Abdominal-Pelvic Discomfort/Distention/Bloating

5.5
Nausea and Vomiting

2.2
Breast Discomfort

2.1
Visual Symptoms

Blurred vision, lights, floaters, waves, unspecified visual complaints, photophobia, diplopia, scotomata, phosphenes



1.5
Headache

1.3
Abnormal uterine Bleeding, Intermenstrual spotting, menorrhagia

1.3

Includes 498 patients whose reports may have been duplicated in the event totals and could not be distinguished as such. Also, excludes 47 patients who did not report symptom data.

The following adverse events have been reported in fewer than 1% of patients in clinical trials: Acute abdomen, appetite increase, constipation, dermatitis or rash, depression, diarrhea, dizziness, fatigue, hair loss/dry hair, increased urinary frequency/volume, insomnia, light-headedness, nervous tension, vaginal dryness, vertigo, weight gain/loss.

Patients on prolonged clomiphene citrate therapy may show elevated serum levels of desmosterol. This is most likely due to a direct interference with cholesterol synthesis. However, the serum sterols in patients receiving the recommended dose of clomiphene citrate are not significantly altered. Ovarian cancer has been infrequently reported in patients who have received fertility drugs. Infertility is a primary risk factor for ovarian cancer; however, epidemiology data suggest that prolonged use of clomiphene may increase the risk of a borderline or invasive ovarian tumor.

Postmarketing Adverse Events

The following adverse experiences were reported spontaneously with clomiphene citrate tablets USP. The cause and effect relationship of the listed events to the administration of clomiphene citrate tablets USP is not known.

Dermatologic: Acne, allergic reaction, erythema, erythema multiforme, erythema nodosum, hypertrichosis, pruritus

Central Nervous System: Migraine headache, paresthesia, seizure, stroke, syncope

Psychiatric: Anxiety, irritability, mood changes, psychosis

Visual Disorders: Abnormal accommodation, cataract, eye pain, macular edema, optic neuritis, photopsia, posterior vitreous detachment, retinal hemorrhage, retinal thrombosis, retinal vascular spasm, temporary loss of vision

Cardiovascular: Arrhythmia, chest pain, edema, hypertension, palpitation, phlebitis, pulmonary embolism, shortness of breath, tachycardia, thrombophlebitis

Musculoskeletal: Arthralgia, back pain, myalgia

Hepatic: Transaminases increased, hepatitis

Neoplasms: Liver (hepatic hemangiosarcoma, liver cell adenoma, hepatocellular carcinoma); breast (fibrocystic disease, breast carcinoma); endometrium (endometrial carcinoma); nervous system (astrocytoma, pituitary tumor, prolactinoma, neurofibromatosis, glioblastoma multiforme, brain abcess); ovary (luteoma of pregnancy, dermoid cyst of the ovary, ovarian carcinoma); trophoblastic (hydatiform mole, choriocarcinoma); miscellaneous (melanoma, myeloma, perianal cysts, renal cell carcinoma, Hodgkin’s lymphoma, tongue carcinoma, bladder carcinoma); and neoplasms of offspring (neuroectodermal tumor, thyroid tumor, hepatoblastoma, lymphocytic leukemia)

Genitourinary: Endometriosis, ovarian cyst (ovarian enlargement or cysts could, as such, be complicated by adnexal torsion), ovarian hemorrhage, tubal pregnancy, uterine hemorrhage

Body as a Whole: Fever, tinnitus, weakness

Other: Leukocytosis, th roid disorder.

Fetal/Neoastal Anomalies

The following fetal abnormalities have also been reported during postmarketing surveillance: delayed development; abnormal bone development including skeletal malformations of the skull, face, nasal passages, jaw, hand, limb (ectromelia including amelia, hemimelia, and phocomelia), foot, and joints; tissue malformations including imperforate anus, tracheoesophageal fistula, diaphragmatic hernia, renal agenesis and dysgenesis, and malformations of the eye and lens (cataract), ear, lung, heart (ventricular septal defect and tetralogy of Fallot), and genitalia; as well as dwarfism, deafness, mental retardation, chromosomal disorders, and neural tube defects (including anencephaly).

DRUG ABUSE AND DEPENDENCE

Tolerance, abuse, or dependence with clomiphene citrate tablets USP has not been reported.

Table 2 indicates that it CAN affect your vision, but eyesight aside, all of the other side effects listed look bad enough to make a person think twice about using Clomid.

 

[anabolic highlord25]

I've done clomid only PCT and it works fine. I run it 100mg PD for 3 days then 50mg PD for the remainder of a 4 wek PCT. I like to throw in nolva with it also though. I'm not knocking your cycle but I've never seen anyone use just winny for a cycle before. How were your results? How long did you run it?

The results are good, after 2 weeks I'm looking muscular as hell and the strength
is through the roof! The only sides are a little bit of aggresion and some acne on my
back. This is my first cycle and I wanted to start off with a weaker substance rather than starting with DBOL or test e. I also want to keep my gains and I've done a lot of research on Winny and it is one of the best steroids to use in order to retain gains.....I'm going to be running it for 6 weeks and almost halfway through it.

 

[bilter]

Table 2 indicates that it CAN affect your vision, but eyesight aside, all of the other side effects listed look bad enough to make a person think twice about using Clomid.

note to self:::: Try to absorb what I read in all these freakin studies I look up!!!