What Is The Extent Of Carnivore Work?

[HULKSTER]

If I originally created my hushmail.com account on a public library computer, that has a different ISP than my home computer, can the FBI's Carnivore program still track my activity in regards to my hushmail account if I send/read mail from my home computer, even though it was technically established at a different computer terminal a couple of counties away from my home?

 

[Citruscide]

I am aware of someone who is being prosecuted federally... and you wouldn't believe the SHIT they have on him... ranging from his home, to computer labs at local universities...

C-ditty

 

[HULKSTER]

I am aware of someone who is being prosecuted federally... and you wouldn't believe the SHIT they have on him... ranging from his home, to computer labs at local universities...

C-ditty

I can see how the Feds can prosecute him based on evidence found on his OWN HOME COMPUTER, but how the hell can they prove that evidence obtained on a publicly used computer at school, or a library, was committed by the specific person in question. I mean, dozens of people might use that same computer terminally every day.

 

[daemon]

Short answer, yes. Long answer, not likely.

I don't claim to know the inner workings of the hushmail system so I could be wrong on a couple of points. I'm also not a lawyer so consult one before you take my word as fact.

Given enough desire, the gov't could use things such as traffic analysis to prove that at x:xx time you made a connection through your ISP to hushmail. At x:xx someone also logged into your hushmail account. Monitoring this enough times would provide reasonable doubt. It's circumstantial evidence which probably by itself isn't enough to be prosecuted on.

Depending on how paranoid you want to get, the gov't could also install a keylogger on your system, use Van Eck phreaking to read your computers emanations from outside your house or possibly even arrest you and force you to reveal your passphrase. Again most of this in highly unlikely but theoretically possible.

Another interesting point about public key cryptography is non-repudiation. Simply put, by using public key cryptography, signing your email mathmatically proves that you wrote the email. If they can link you and your public key, they've just proven that you wrote that email.

Bottom line, none of this is likely. Short of being a terrorist, your not worth the governments time to waste the amount of resources any of the above would require.

 

[daemon]

I am aware of someone who is being prosecuted federally... and you wouldn't believe the SHIT they have on him... ranging from his home, to computer labs at local universities...

C-ditty

Very valid point. There is usually plenty of other avenues to gain incriminating evidence. If they've got enough for a warrant, they've already got a decent amount of evidence. After that everything else is icing on the cake.

 

[daemon]

I can see how the Feds can prosecute him based on evidence found on his OWN HOME COMPUTER, but how the hell can they prove that evidence obtained on a publicly used computer at school, or a library, was committed by the specific person in question. I mean, dozens of people might use that same computer terminally every day.

Cameras, eyewitnesses, account login logs, etc. The easiest way is to link someone to a particular time and then grab all files accessed or created during that time frame. A pretty complete picture can be drawn relatively easy.

 

[HULKSTER]

Is there no way to escape the government's reach? It seems like no matter what we do, those cocksuckers will wrongly control our lives, and punish us over their petty, hypocritical nonsense.

 

[ROID WARRIOR]

HULKSTER:

Carnivore would not be dependent upon the computer's IP address, but could actually be programmed to search an e-mail account for certain terms. For example, the FBI could install Carnivore on an ISP, with their consent, and begin searching for certain terms. (A keylogger program, which the FBI refers to as Magic Lantern, invloves an actual install on the subject's computer.) In any event, during such Carniovore scans the e-mail address [email protected] is flagged for those terms. The feds now begin reading the e-mail to and from that account. As such, it won't matter if the user logs into that e-mail account back at the crib, the school computer lab or one at work.

One way to attempt to prevent prying eyes from reading that e-mail is PGP encryption. However, as Daemon stated, the feds may persuade an intimidated defendant without counsel to relinquish their PGP key. As you're no doubt aware, PGP encryption and other cyber-security measures are the subject of an entire chapter of LEGAL MUSCLE.

With regard to the U.S. government's reach, to the best of my knowledge, the constitutionality of the extent to which Carnivore can be used hasn't been decided. Last summer, while Rick was researching the Cyberspace chapter for LEGAL MUSCLE, I recall reading about a case in which the ACLU had filed an amicus brief. Perhaps this will be covered in a future edition of LEGAL MUSCLE.

Regards,

RW

 

[Mike DiMaggio]

I will be completing an updated research paper concerning the boundaries of government surveillance and search and seizure in the course of an investigation involving online drug sales. The paper addresses Carnivore amongst other things. I will be passing this paper on to Rick as I feel it will prove quite valuable to us in the future. Undoubtedly you all will reap the benefits of this information.

 

[HULKSTER]

HULKSTER:

Carnivore would not be dependent upon the computer's IP address, but could actually be programmed to search an e-mail account for certain terms. For example, the FBI could install Carnivore on an ISP, with their consent, and begin searching for certain terms. (A keylogger program, which the FBI refers to as Magic Lantern, invloves an actual install on the subject's computer.) In any event, during such Carniovore scans the e-mail address [email protected] is flagged for those terms. The feds now begin reading the e-mail to and from that account. As such, it won't matter if the user logs into that e-mail account back at the crib, the school computer lab or one at work.

One way to attempt to prevent prying eyes from reading that e-mail is PGP encryption. However, as Daemon stated, the feds may persuade an intimidated defendant without counsel to relinquish their PGP key. As you're no doubt aware, PGP encryption and other cyber-security measures are the subject of an entire chapter of LEGAL MUSCLE.

With regard to the U.S. government's reach, to the best of my knowledge, the constitutionality of the extent to which Carnivore can be used hasn't been decided. Last summer, while Rick was researching the Cyberspace chapter for LEGAL MUSCLE, I recall reading about a case in which the ACLU had filed an amicus brief. Perhaps this will be covered in a future edition of LEGAL MUSCLE.

Regards,

RW

In Rick's book, he does discuss Carnivore, as well as Magic Lantern. However, Rick said that the FBI is currently working on Magic Lantern, and that it had not yet been approved for usage----and probably never will unless John Ascroft becomes President.