Using ESTROGENs (not only SERMs) on cycle

[DocToxin8]

I'm wondering if anybody else have pondered about using estrogens during cycle.
This is not something that would apply to many steroid users, but for those that stay ON for most or ALL the time, and have had gyno surgery so bitch tits is impossible, Could in theory use estrogens on cycle.

What would be the point of this?

Well, I'm speculating that increasing estrogen levels alongside high dosages of AAS, could perhaps have some benefits.
Its also obvious that it can have a LOT of side effects, like water retention, high BP and reduced libido/ED to name a few.

The possible benefits and risks of using estrogens in men on AAS are also highly dose related, not only of the estrogens in question but the amount and types of AAS used.

Why bother with estrogen at all?
im thinking that small doses of (which particular estrogen is still undetermined) E could increase SHBG, strength and mass gain, libido in some cases, and sense of well being.
I suspect that adding E to a "dry" stack, that is a cycle low in T and high in non aromatizable compounds would make the cycle less "dry" and more like a bulking cycle, but who knows?

My own reasons to investigate this route is an extremely low SHBG along with a worn out feeling.
I realize that my symptoms might be cured by a SERM like clomid, and that's what I'm trying first.

However, I would like to know, have anybody any experience in using estrogens alongside AAS in men, or even heard about it?

 

[muskate]

High estrogen levels promote fat storage in men. Estrogen is the primary female sex hormone. A small amount is needed in men but large amounts will cause you to experience more feminine side effects - more fat, less muscle, less strength/aggression etc.

I like that you are thinking outside the box but scientifically, your idea makes no sense at all.

Just like when a woman takes testosterone (steroids) they become more manly - more muscular, stronger etc.

When a man takes estrogen, they would become more feminine - more body fat, less muscle etc.

 

[stevesmi]

you are missing out on the fact that SERM's cause a drop in IGF-1 on top of everything already.

instead aromasin raises IGF-1. so that should be used on cycle, not SERM's

 

[Jay Scott]

A lot of pro bodybuilders try to keep estrogen at moderate levels, but not too high.

Also, it is important not to kill it off, so dont abuse the AI

 

[DocToxin8]

Your answer is expected and pretty much what I'd ttell someone asking the same.

However, it's not quite as simple as saying estrogens will make you more feminine, not when also using AAS.

F.ex I don't think strength and muscle gain would decrease if one added estrogens to a regimen high in androgens. The estrogens wouldn't work as an antagonist to testosterone. And how it would effect mood, etc would be a dose related thing.

If if one wishes to raise SHBG f.ex, couldn't one add a small amount of extra estrogen, an oral one should be best (due to more effect of the liver where SHBG is produced), and perhaps get more of an effect without the same sides as when using clomid? (Or another SERM)

since this is all theoretical and most people's goals are to limit estrogen as much as possible, it would be interesting to hear if anyone has actually done this, as it's pretty difficult to foresee all possible effects.

And another case: you've drove E down to nothing with AIs, and you suffer an injury or just general joint pain. Couldn't exogenous E fix/help this issue?
General joint pain from too low E would ofcourse also resolve itself once the AI reaches low enough levels, but what effect high estrogen has in conjunction with high androgens on injuries I wonder.

Im probably looking up a dead end here, but it's something I at least want to explore, as high aromatization steroids (or estrogenic ones like anadrol) often seem to be the best bulking steroids.
The water retention (while generally unwanted) seem to create an environment with less joint pain f.ex.
Whether it's truly the water retention that does this, or the estrogen that causes the bloat is responsible I'm not sure, but tend to think its the estrogen.

If one reduces bloat with a diuretic then joint problems doesn't occur more often to my knowledge (but a lot of other side effects do),
but if one reduces bloat by reducing estrogen then joint issues may arise.

To say that proves that E protects joints is a long shot, but it's something I like to look deeper into at least.

 

[DocToxin8]

And SERMs causing a drop in IGF1?
thought the jury was still out on that one,
just as AI's could raise IGF1 when one is allready using androgens.
(I though the IGF1 raising effects of some AIs is that when used alone they'll spike testosterone production)

I doubt that E would have any negative impact on IGF1, but it would in a study on men without any other drugs.
If one gives E to a normal man his T will drop and his IGF1 too most likely.

 

[MasonicBodybuilder]

What about just running aromasin but at a much lower dose? You would have more estrogen and also get the IGF-1 boost that Steve was talking about.