Test and steroids for endurance athletes

[eddymerckx]

I am not sure if you are criticizing me or not--I am on test and equip right now (my off season b/c of an injury).

I have done EPO w/(some support) and still think it's death in a bottle--just too unpredictable--or too predictable in some sense.

I agree about not using w/test boosters (and I live at 6000 feet and train at up to 9000)

I disagree as to the dose level (but qualified it w/the statement that I changed 2x already during my cycle to get it right)--125 may be okay but not cyp (net test prob 106 or so depending on the lab) as that is below HRT dose. I decided on 275--but this is my off season and it test prop.

My problem with the relying on the AI for avoiding pumps is b/c it dries out my knees, ankles, and hips to some extent. Winny has given me extreme joint pain--but I put in a lot of miles and am 45 yo...so anything gives me joint pain except the equipoise helps a ton.

I have only had bad luck injecting thighs or glutes---for obvious reason so, again, i speak from painful experience.

So I think I actually gave good advice--and advice learned through (too much) experience. I went from Cat 5 to Cat 2 in three years w/o the Master's upgrade.

 

[Loggerone]

Oh, and by the way, if you're getting too pumped from test add a very small dose of AI like 6.25-12.5mg Aromasin on injection day only and don't inject for 3+ days before the event. Low dose winny or proviron might help as well.

Wow! Did someone here (namely me) actually just post something that might help this guy? What a freaking miracle!

I was taking 10mg of winstrol a day with the 1/2 cc of test a week.
Some days were good and some were bad. Just the burning feeling.
I stop taking it because I was on it for around 8 weeks.

You do agree with what Eddymerxks said?
Get test level back to normal and do a off season cycle?
Is there anything cycle that would help with recovery without the pumps in the legs?

 

[mammalspod]

I was not criticizing you, Eddy, but I think your doses are too high for most serious enduro athletes. If I was on 275 test 500 Bold I would not want to ride a bicycle at all. I was criticizing all the guys who weigh in and have never combined AAS and endurance. Pros use cyp and enanthate all the time. I am not of the school that believes prop is better especially at low doses. I ride a bike every day and quad injects have never given me a problem. I would much rather have a sore leg than a tight piriformis from glute or ventro glute.

Orbea, I would get some Aromasin and use it. When I run test like you are I like twice weekly injections. Start off with 6.25mg (quarter pill) Aromasin on injection day only. Remember that the window between 12-24 hours after injecting are the worst for pumps. If you take winny again, do it like I said. Every day is unnecessary for us. 3 times a week right after your hardest days at 25mg is perfect.

Another option if all this does not work out is to use test base or suspension in 30mg doses immediately after your hardest rides. This is what pros do in grand tours. They usually do the patch but it is really expensive. The non-esterified test is super short acting so their won't be a residual effect to cause pumping.
As far as supplementation is concerned, for recovery try a good fish oil and multi everyday plus Sport Legs or Cytomax before/during rides and 10g Glutamine+400mg Magnesium after.
Good luck.

 

[eddymerckx]

as I said earlier and mammalspod points-out--Sport Legs can be a great addition (test the cytomax on a short ride as I know few people who have had GI issues (get it a bit from the recommended dose of the Sport Legs (1 pill per 50lbs body weight but I found taking 1 less pill fixed it)

I want to reiterate that my doses are off-season--not what I would use in-season. Like mammalspod said, after a hard multi-day race (e.g. triple bypass)or fun race/tour (Ride the Rockies--no real "times") I do a shot of suspension but I am not riding under my name.

The aromasin should help w/o drying your joints out.

It's also good to see someone recommend a simple one-a-day besides me---I just add a full b complex with it (look for the levels of b-6/b-12)

Make sure you get protein w/in an hour or so after training. Need not be fancy, just a good mix of fast and slow.

 

[endersbyd]

Great article man, very informative and appears to be well researched.

I fall into the category of MMA fighters which excludes a lot of your advice. My current training is as follows:-

Monday evening - MMA training 1.5 hrs

Tuesday morning - 1 hr weights (not heavy, mainly high reps, 3 muscle groups) and then 1.5 hrs kickboxing training (mainly cardio)

Tuesday Evening - 1.5 hrs Kickboxing training (circuit training and bag and pad work)

Wednesday evening - MMA training 1.5 hrs

Thursday morning - 1 hr weights (not heavy, mainly high reps, 3 muscle groups) and then 1.5 hrs kickboxing training (mainly cardio)

Thursday Evening - 1.5 hrs Kickboxing training (circuit training and bag and pad work)

Friday evening - MMA training 1.5 hrs

Saturday morning - strength and power class. 2hrs - bench press and chest work out for 1 hr and then kettle bell routine for 1 hr

Sunday - rest

What would you recommend for me? I want to develop some more power but keep my flexibility and increase endurance.

 

[elite7777]

This is a good thread! I am glad to see other cyclists on this board; I too am a competitive cyclist. I have a question for mammalspod, eddymerckx and others about using Testosterone cream for recovery after hard cycling workouts on the bike. I currently have Androgel 1% and 1 pump equals 12.5mg of Test. I tried 4 pumps for a few days but then stopped because I didn’t want to shutdown my natural production. Now I am thinking I can just use it for recovery. What is a good recovery dose to use after hard rides, maybe one or two pumps, once or twice a week? I do not want to shutdown or slowdown my natural Test production.

My stats = 37yo, 5’9”, 152 lbs, 11% body fat (est.)

Current supplements:

Multivitamin (daily)
2000mg Fish Oil (daily)
81mg Aspirin (daily)
200mg CoQ-10 (daily)
1600mg Beta-Alanine (daily)
1500mg L-Glutamine (daily)

Supplements Pre/During/Post ride:

PacificHealth Labs Endurox R4 (post)
PacificHealth Labs Accelerade (pre/during)
Additional BCAA’s as needed (post)

 

[elite7777]

BUMP! I am trying to determine if testosterone can be used intermittently for recovery after hard workouts. Like the workouts when I do lots of hard internals and can barely walk up the stairs when done! See my post above... Thanks!

 

[Biker435]

Hi
I'm a cyclist looking for a trainer that has experience in steroids
I can't get it right

 

[ihatbananas]

I am on 275/prop; 500/equip for base building training (hills/distance) and I found that amount is just about perfect for recovery w/o pumps (a little on the hills but not terribly worse than normal).

Keeping electrolytes balanced is the key--(use special blends not gatorade)

take extra taurine (not just one banana) and no cramps.

my weight stopped dropping on gear (as planned on a restricted calorie diet) but performance is through the roof (at September 2011 level)--importantly output watts/per pound increased about 23%--

Hey I liked this post a lot, you still in the game?

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

 

[ihatbananas]

Haha! I said I wouldn't post here anymore but I saw this and I couldn't resist. Eddie reposted the best article I've read on endurance and AAS and everyone has a criticism for it. That is so 2012 EF for ya. You want to know why I think the post was so good? Because I found out a lot of the same info on my own through TRIAL and ERROR (used to be more common around these part, now it's a bunch of sheeple and their groupthink). I'll address some criticisms.
"AAS wont help endurance athletes"- endurance athletics has some of the most prolific dopping busts of any sport. One of the most common substances if not the most common substance is test-see Festina team, Floyd Landis or Operacion Puerto.
"125mg isn't enough" okay then no one bothered to tell that to elite cyclists because this is a common dose. the reason it makes sense to do it even though you're only "replacing your natural test" is because heavy endurance training on its own will drive you into the lower test range or even hypogonadal levels. 125-150, like the post says, will boost to above the level you would have even if you weren't training. If you're objective is to climb mountain passes on hundred mile days the last thing you want is big pumped legs. Guess what? I've personally taken 250+mg of test per week and ridden serious miles at altitude and it sucks every animals' balls.
"Why not take a test booster instead" If you're training at the volume level of a real endurance athlete, the training shuts down androgen production tremendously. In fact, you want a TRT prescription? Have your doctor order you a T test and run 10 miles every day for ten days before the test. A test booster might be effective if the olde HPG axis wasn't so bogged down by all the adrenal hormones in circulation. This is exactly why endurance athletes have resorted to all out exogenous test replacement. Don't you think they would have taken something legal if it were just as effective? (der!)
"Winstrol isn't good for athletics"- Okay, no one bothered to tell all the elite athletes out there. I'm pretty sure this is the drug more athletes have been busted for than anything else other than test. Try it and tell me what you think. I recommend 25 mg 4 times a week immediately after training. It's a recovery miracle and that dose will not significantly effect joints. Again, I know because I DID IT. Winstrol is a perfect example of the sheeple groupthink-everyone trashes it these days. I agree their are better options for bodybuilding and heavy lifting and in those extremes and high doses there will be joint consequences, but for sports it truly is the shit.
"what about after you come off?" Recover from a 150 test 200 bold cycle is not hard at all. Also, since it is such a mild dose one could stay on the whole competition season or break their season into two large cycles with a short break in between. Low dose AI and periodical HCG helps to further reduce supression. What a lot of cyclists do in the offseason is use a non esterified steroid like test suspension or patches once a week after the long ride for recovery therapy.
If you use EPO without clinical support you're a complete moron.
This is what I popped off about this site before and got banned for. Everyone here is so quick to throw in their opinions about non-bodybuilding AAS use with no actual experience. Some guy wants to crush an MMA fight or a 5k and people are telling him to take 500mg + of test plus other strong substances? Epic Fail (unless its the offseason).
Stop posting things that seem right and limit your advice to things you have actually tried.
I love how the original post is identical to what a top endurance coach would tell you and a moserator on this site says "If you wnat my opinion its stupid..."

YOU FAIL

Hey man this looks really interesting, are you still riding?

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk