Second cycle: test and decca or test and dianabol??

[cbbram]

Interesting..:
He is off cycle, may have taken an AI ( although I do not), what makes you believe that it is water and that his estrogen is out of whack? That is usually the last place that holds fat.


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because he said he was holding water weight around his lower abdomen. water retention is a common side effect of high estrogen

 

[charger69mx]

because he said he was holding water weight around his lower abdomen. water retention is a common side effect of high estrogen

I understand the logic of the water. Why do you really believe it is water? Why do you think that he has high estrogen if he is off cycle?
Just trying to understand.


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[cbbram]

I understand the logic of the water. Why do you really believe it is water? Why do you think that he has high estrogen if he is off cycle?
Just trying to understand.


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because he said it was... i just said he needs to control estrogen to keep water retention to a minimum. does he have high estrogen at this very moment? who knows... he will have to get bloodwork to determine.

 

[luxu86]

ok, you keep saying i need to control high estrogen (ebe though its not confirmed) but HOW exactlg do you control high estrogen? also ie also had a bit of lower abdomen fat even before my first cycle. For some reason i can build muscles in my chest ARM BACK AND LEGS, bt lower abdomen never seems to get lean or shreded.
Now that i think about it, its probably just body fat since ive been off cycle for over 2 weeks now and my belly remains the same.

 

[sean501]

Sounds like your diet is the thing that needs looking at, not more PEDs.


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[charger69mx]

ok, you keep saying i need to control high estrogen (ebe though its not confirmed) but HOW exactlg do you control high estrogen? also ie also had a bit of lower abdomen fat even before my first cycle. For some reason i can build muscles in my chest ARM BACK AND LEGS, bt lower abdomen never seems to get lean or shreded.
Now that i think about it, its probably just body fat since ive been off cycle for over 2 weeks now and my belly remains the same.

I am going off of experience and not necessarily your situation, however you seem to fit in this category. The only real way of telling is blood tests however I am pretty sure it isn’t estrogen.
You are comparing two opposites - growing muscle and losing fat. Entirely different. One is excess caloric intake ( growing muscle) and the other is caloric deficit (losing fat). There are advanced techniques like recomp, but that’s another subject.
Lower abdomen fat is usually the last to go. It is a stubborn MOFO. You need to expend more calories than you are taking in. I would up your cardio- assuming you really know how to diet. Calories are not all the same. Usually at 10% bf, your abs are looking good.
Figure out your TDEE estimate and lower 500 calories . Eat 6 times a day. Just use 40 minutes of steady state low intensity cardio.
Let’s talk about estrogen. Estrogen is your friend... to a point. I do not take an AI anymore. I started really growing when I stopped. NOTE: Everyone is different for gyno so you can’t just do what someone else does.
I do a bulk of a super water compensation and let my estrogen go free ..... the estrogen makes you grow like a weed. This isn’t just haphazard. I am careful of endema and then I know that I need to monitor it a little closer and pull back a little.
This is an advanced technique and is not necessary for the people just trying to look fit.
I hope that I answered your questions and did not confuse you.


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[pgc640]

hey guys, i plan to start my second cycle in few weeks. My goal is to add more muscles (full, round, hard) so which combination would you guys suggest?

Also, i gained some muscle from my first cycle of Test sustanon, but noticed i still hold a bit water weight around my lower abdomen..do recommend adding anavar to lean me out more or just increase cardio?

Either one
Doesn't make much difference.
Dont put so much time into thinking about which drugs to use it's not advanced physics.

Put that time into getting your diet on point, for you. Meaning figure out what diet works for your body specifically. It makes no difference what works for me, your buddy or some guy online. You have to know how to eat to maximize your gains. I think it's the most important thing.

And your training. The drugs will works as long as you take care of everything else the correct way.

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[pgc640]

I would not be running either of those wet cycles at 17% body fat. I think you will just end up looking more bloated in the end. I would first cut down and once you are leaner, run something to add lean mass. Once you are there, I would do the test/deca vs the test/dbol.

Why?? It makes no difference what drugs you use. A wet drug, really?? What you are saying is do not take something that will cause water retention if you eat like shit. Thaf us what a wet drug is.
Anyone can loose bodyfat, gain muscle and look hard as helmet on, for example test cup, dbol and deca. It all depends on what you eat.
Also, there is no reason to use an AI. If you have estrogen issues the goal is estrogen control not estrogen elimination. Only time that is a good thing is a week before you are going to compete.
AIs are just too strong and the margin of error far too small. Unless you are able to check your estrogen levels weekly it's not the smartest thing to do. Just use NOVELDEX, easy and no chance of having side effects from your estrogen going too.low.

Remember, AIS DIDNT even exist before 1999. Look at pictures of Ronnie Colman from 1997 and tell me he needed an AI.

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[RickRock13]

I guarantee you that water you think you are holding in your abdomen is just increased bodyfat.