x
Almost there! Please complete this form and click the button below to gain instant access.
EliteFitness.com FREE Email Series: How You Can Use Winstrol, Masteron, HGH, and Testosterone for a Perfect, Muscular Physique!
- -
We hate SPAM and promise to keep your email address safe.
- -

"contradicting" advice on using tamoxifen while on cycle.


Welcome to the EliteFitness.com Bodybuilding Site! Please join this discussion about "contradicting" advice on using tamoxifen while on cycle. within the Anabolic Steroids category.

Excerpt: While it's not "contradicting" information, the kindle version, Anabolics, by William Llewellyn includes sample cycles. On most cycles that use an androgenic (not anabolic), he wrote: "estrogen support: tamoxifen (20-40mg/day)" including cycles where users never go above 500mg of test E, per week, and there's no other compound being used. (He didn't write to use tamoxifen only if symptoms appear in this section of the book). On many websites dedicated to PED use, there's beginner

Read more or register here to join the discussion below...

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 17
  1. #1
    All Natural
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Posts
    22
    Rep Power
    0

    "contradicting" advice on using tamoxifen while on cycle.

    While it's not "contradicting" information, the kindle version, Anabolics, by William Llewellyn includes sample cycles.
    On most cycles that use an androgenic (not anabolic), he wrote:
    "estrogen support: tamoxifen (20-40mg/day)"
    including cycles where users never go above 500mg of test E, per week, and there's no other compound being used. (He didn't write to use tamoxifen only if symptoms appear in this section of the book).

    On many websites dedicated to PED use, there's beginner cycles of just test E, that don't recommend using tamoxifen during cycle; however, there are more advanced cycles online with multiple compounds that do recommend an AI or anti-estrogen while on cycle.

    If you keep reading the book, you will find the drug profile of tamoxifen where he wrote, "It is important to note that anti-estrogen use may slightly reduce gains made during a steroid cycle...Therefore it is usually advised to identify a specific need for tamoxifen citrate before committing to its use during a cycle. Many people, in fact, find the use of an anti-estrogen unnecessary....Others, however, find they are troubled by water retention and gynecomastia even with milder (estrogenic) drugs...The estrogenic response to steroid use is very individual, and may be influenced by age and body fat percentage...".

    I'm confused because on his sample cycles he didn't write this information, so why isn't he following his own advice? He wrote a whole section of the book dedicated to estrogen aromatization and cited a study where TRT patients were given tamoxifen vs. other patients who only did TRT without tamoxifen. The TRT group that DID NOT use tamoxifen had higher growth hormone and IGF-1 values than the TRT + tamoxifen group who had the values, "notably supressed".

    Do you run up to 500mg / week of test E, without tamoxifen during cycle?

    or

    Do you run tamoxifen everyday while on cycle even on just 500mg / week of test E?

    If you don't run tamoxifen during a weak cycle, and you are unlucky and notice early gyno, fat gains, and acne, wouldn't it be better to use something stronger than tamoxifen? It's my belief that it would be too late to use tamoxifen once you have early symptoms of gyno (Maybe not use letro, but something stronger than tamoxifen)

  2. #2
    Moderator SteveMobsterG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Posts
    8,325
    Rep Power
    0

    Re: "contradicting" advice on using tamoxifen while on cycle.

    Start by checking out our articles.

  3. #3
    All Natural
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Posts
    22
    Rep Power
    0

    Re: "contradicting" advice on using tamoxifen while on cycle.

    Quote Quote posted by SteveMobsterG View Post
    Start by checking out our articles.
    Yes, I do a lot of research. I just discovered this forum. Link please .
    I am the kind of guy that reads everything before asking.

  4. #4
    Moderator dylangemelli's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    MAUI
    Posts
    17,488
    Rep Power
    3420

    Re: "contradicting" advice on using tamoxifen while on cycle.

    there is no need whatsoever to use nolvadex on cycle... unless perhaps with something like anadrol, which is just a rare circumstance.. you need an ai, preferably aromasin, on cycle... nolvadex is just an estrogen blocker, NOT an aromatase inhibitor...

  5. #5
    HEAD MODERATOR stevesmi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    34,140
    Rep Power
    122767

    Re: "contradicting" advice on using tamoxifen while on cycle.

    that information was first published like in 1988 man.. today it is 2019

    we have things called aromatase inhibitors now. you want to use aromasin, which didn't even exist back then
    Now taking clients for 1 on 1 consults via skype. contact me I can help you
    Looking for a steroid source? drop me a visitor message or click> https://www.evolutionary.org/forums/...iii-59858.html
    http://goo.gl/kDk0zS <save 10% on bloodwork
    http://goo.gl/bVJ44F <authorized supp store deals
    https://goo.gl/Vy5WA7 <12 week bulker and cutting/fasting Ebooks 4sale
    ask me for coupons to N2bm, juvepharma, sarms1 etc.
    http://goo.gl/F9Yggp < click for Rx drugs

  6. #6
    All Natural
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Posts
    22
    Rep Power
    0

    Re: "contradicting" advice on using tamoxifen while on cycle.

    Quote Quote posted by stevesmi View Post
    that information was first published like in 1988 man.. today it is 2019

    we have things called aromatase inhibitors now. you want to use aromasin, which didn't even exist back then
    Indeed! I would like to read more updated data.
    However, does using aromasin completely kills estrogen or just prevents it from giving the common side-effects: acne, water retention, and gyno?
    Because if it kills estrogens, wouldn't that mean it is reducing gains by being used during a low dose cycle (e.g. Test E / 500mg a week)?

    Quote Quote posted by dylangemelli View Post
    there is no need whatsoever to use nolvadex on cycle... unless perhaps with something like anadrol, which is just a rare circumstance.. you need an ai, preferably aromasin, on cycle... nolvadex is just an estrogen blocker, NOT an aromatase inhibitor...
    I see, but if tamoxifen reduces androgens' gains (as mentioned in the book), wouldn't aromasin do the same if it's used during low dose cycles (e.g. Test E / 500mg a week)? This also makes me question, if running an AI during a Test E or Test C is necessary...why ins't it mentioned on websites that list beginner cycles?

    (Please link me to one that mentions it. Because of the book I was reading, I'm getting confused about always running an AI during cycle every cycle, even on a simple 250mg to 500mg Test a week, versus, only if a user experiences: acne, water retention, or early gynecomastia)

  7. #7
    Moderator dylangemelli's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    MAUI
    Posts
    17,488
    Rep Power
    3420

    Re: "contradicting" advice on using tamoxifen while on cycle.

    Quote Quote posted by LowTier_Saiyan View Post
    Indeed! I would like to read more updated data.
    However, does using aromasin completely kills estrogen or just prevents it from giving the common side-effects: acne, water retention, and gyno?
    Because if it kills estrogens, wouldn't that mean it is reducing gains by being used during a low dose cycle (e.g. Test E / 500mg a week)?



    I see, but if tamoxifen reduces androgens' gains (as mentioned in the book), wouldn't aromasin do the same if it's used during low dose cycles (e.g. Test E / 500mg a week)? This also makes me question, if running an AI during a Test E or Test C is necessary...why ins't it mentioned on websites that list beginner cycles?

    (Please link me to one that mentions it. Because of the book I was reading, I'm getting confused about always running an AI during cycle every cycle, even on a simple 250mg to 500mg Test a week, versus, only if a user experiences: acne, water retention, or early gynecomastia)
    The only reason an ai would reduce gains is by killing off estrogen. Aromasin increases igf levels, which is quite important. Im not sitting here today digging up studies bro. Ive been doing this a decade. Pretty sure ive learned it by now. Dont use an ai if u dont want to. Pretty cut and dry. Just dont start panicking or looking for help when u get scared about estrogen problems


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

  8. #8
    All Natural
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Posts
    22
    Rep Power
    0

    Re: "contradicting" advice on using tamoxifen while on cycle.

    Quote Quote posted by dylangemelli View Post
    The only reason an ai would reduce gains is by killing off estrogen. Aromasin increases igf levels, which is quite important. Im not sitting here today digging up studies bro. Ive been doing this a decade. Pretty sure ive learned it by now. Dont use an ai if u dont want to. Pretty cut and dry. Just dont start panicking or looking for help when u get scared about estrogen problems


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    Thank you for the info (really, not sarcastic).
    I wasn't doubting your feedback, I was already confused in general because I was told to research everything needed for a cycle. I read as much as I could, and kept finding different answers =-(

    For example, in the book, Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde by Christian Thibaudeau and Anthony Roberts. There's a cycle of 300-400mg Test E (or Test C), and Equipoise is listed as optional, dosed at 300-400mg.

    "At this dose, not toomany side effects should occur- if any. If your nipples get sore (signaling theonset of Gyno), then 10mgs/day of Nolvadex or .5mgs/day of Arimidexcould be added in. It wouldn’t be a bad idea to keep one of those compoundson hand, just in case."

    So now I have too many suggestions:
    - Use AI Every other day.
    - Use When nipples get sore.
    - There's no need to use an AI while only using Test 500mg or less / week.
    - Don't use nolvadex because it only blocks estrogens, it doesn't kill them.

    This is where I'm coming from. It wasn't my intention to be rude.

  9. #9
    Moderator dylangemelli's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    MAUI
    Posts
    17,488
    Rep Power
    3420

    Re: "contradicting" advice on using tamoxifen while on cycle.

    you will find different info from different people... you do it however you want... ive been coaching for a decade and doing things a certain way which protects people and gets them the most out of what they are doing at the same time.. thats up to you to decide.. you asked a question and i gave an answer but ultimately you decide... just because you read something doesnt make it right but like i said, thats up to you.. its not like i or anyone else is getting paid and needs to convince you or something... noone loses sleep either way... i simply try to help put people in the best and safest positions possible.. beyond that, thats up to you

  10. #10
    Moderator Fella Finn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Posts
    1,960
    Rep Power
    0

    Re: "contradicting" advice on using tamoxifen while on cycle.

    I've seen even some reputable coaches suggesting to use nolva on milder cycles. A good example would be your first cycle and if you are not very gyno prone. Although he pointed out later that it's good to have something stronger at hand if things start getting worse but that was like a last resort kind of thing.
    Need coaching?
    2 spots lefts!



Similar Threads

  1. more contradicting info in my head, high gi carb vs low gi
    By 110% in forum Diet & Bodybuilding
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 24-Mar-2002, 03:25 PM
  2. contradicting shit. confused to hell. how much to train?
    By Elite_Fry in forum Weight Training & Weight Lifting
    Replies: 27
    Last Post: 14-Mar-2002, 01:26 PM
  3. contradicting shit. confused to hell. protein or carbs?
    By Elite_Fry in forum Diet & Bodybuilding
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 14-Mar-2002, 06:14 AM
  4. posy cycle bridging, contradicting replies, need clarification please
    By perfectspecimen in forum Anabolic Steroids
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 20-Feb-2002, 09:06 PM
  5. contradicting threads on pgf, please clarify!
    By perfectspecimen in forum Anabolic Steroids
    Replies: 19
    Last Post: 20-Feb-2002, 11:58 AM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •