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needtogetaas
New member
So I think we all know about steroids causing gyno from elevated levels of estrogen. Even the newest of newbs can figure this out in a few short hours of looking around any forum.
Some of you, or maybe most of you also know about Progesteron/prolactin gyno. But what do you really know about it?
Well some will give the easy answer like. It comes from using deca,npp,tren,and other (nandro's). But how,when, and why? I have seen a few people out there wise up and ask a few questions about the subject.
Does it happen from high levels of Progesteron/prolactin? does it take some level of estrogen stimulation to help it along? how can I get rid of it. If it can not form with out estrogen then i could just take letro or an ai to get rid of it right?
Lots of people asking lots of questions about this subject. So lets try and take a good look at it.
Now bare in mind I suck at righting guys. So it may be a bit jumbled and all over the place but I hope it all ties in together some how
Ok first of I think we should talk about tren right of the bat. WHY well taking a look at tren is going to help explain a lot for us here.
tren
Estra-4,9,11-trien-3-one, 17-hydroxy-, (17beta)-
So what this tell us? well it tells us (or me anyway) that tren is unable to convert to estrogen. It has no conversion to estrogen right?
Well if it has no conversion to estrogen then how does it cause gyno. Lets face simple facts many people have used tren alone for a cycle and gotten gyno from it. And squirting titty gyno at that.
tren is a progestin, a type of progestogen, that can stimulate the progesterone receptor. Tren even converts to a metabolite in the body, that binds stronger to progesterone receptors than progesterone itself
SO whats this tell Us? dose it tell us that Progesteron/prolactin gyno can form with out the presence of high circulating estrogen?
Here is where the great minds clash I guess right. Some people will say that permanent gyno can not be formed with out the presence of high estrogen.
I really do not give a crap about all the research and all the studies some one wants to throw around. For me and for the people I have worked with over the years.
We no damn well that just taking a anti estrogen don't always frigging work. Well maybe they are not taking enough. Maybe they are not taking it long enough. Maybe there anti e is no good?
Ya maybe but I have worked with so many damn people on this the numbers are crazy. I see people all the time get gyno well using tren, and some times also other compounds like test thrown in there to. What ever.
I tell them ok lets put you on letro. They take it 1 week 2 weeks up the dose up the dose. take it another week. up the dose up the dose. 3-4-5-6 weeks at max doses. dose it work? nope
OK add in some dostinex .5mg every 3 days
OMG NEEDTO MY GYNO IS GONE WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!
If the case that gyno can not form with out high levels of estrogen were true then this would not happen. Not once not twice but over and over and over and over again.
Now is it true that estrogen and prog work synergistic to cause gyno? make it worse? Yes this is true.
Which brings us to my next topic. Nolvadex. Now its been debated many times if nolva can work with prob to induce gyno or make it worse. Some say yes and some say no.
I tend to say yes. Because (J Steroid Biochem Mol Biol. 2003 Sep;86(3-5):461-7) they found progesterone receptor expression increased well using nolvadex.
OK guess I am done
Some of you, or maybe most of you also know about Progesteron/prolactin gyno. But what do you really know about it?
Well some will give the easy answer like. It comes from using deca,npp,tren,and other (nandro's). But how,when, and why? I have seen a few people out there wise up and ask a few questions about the subject.
Does it happen from high levels of Progesteron/prolactin? does it take some level of estrogen stimulation to help it along? how can I get rid of it. If it can not form with out estrogen then i could just take letro or an ai to get rid of it right?
Lots of people asking lots of questions about this subject. So lets try and take a good look at it.
Now bare in mind I suck at righting guys. So it may be a bit jumbled and all over the place but I hope it all ties in together some how
Ok first of I think we should talk about tren right of the bat. WHY well taking a look at tren is going to help explain a lot for us here.
tren
Estra-4,9,11-trien-3-one, 17-hydroxy-, (17beta)-
So what this tell us? well it tells us (or me anyway) that tren is unable to convert to estrogen. It has no conversion to estrogen right?
Well if it has no conversion to estrogen then how does it cause gyno. Lets face simple facts many people have used tren alone for a cycle and gotten gyno from it. And squirting titty gyno at that.
tren is a progestin, a type of progestogen, that can stimulate the progesterone receptor. Tren even converts to a metabolite in the body, that binds stronger to progesterone receptors than progesterone itself
SO whats this tell Us? dose it tell us that Progesteron/prolactin gyno can form with out the presence of high circulating estrogen?
Here is where the great minds clash I guess right. Some people will say that permanent gyno can not be formed with out the presence of high estrogen.
I really do not give a crap about all the research and all the studies some one wants to throw around. For me and for the people I have worked with over the years.
We no damn well that just taking a anti estrogen don't always frigging work. Well maybe they are not taking enough. Maybe they are not taking it long enough. Maybe there anti e is no good?
Ya maybe but I have worked with so many damn people on this the numbers are crazy. I see people all the time get gyno well using tren, and some times also other compounds like test thrown in there to. What ever.
I tell them ok lets put you on letro. They take it 1 week 2 weeks up the dose up the dose. take it another week. up the dose up the dose. 3-4-5-6 weeks at max doses. dose it work? nope
OK add in some dostinex .5mg every 3 days
OMG NEEDTO MY GYNO IS GONE WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!
If the case that gyno can not form with out high levels of estrogen were true then this would not happen. Not once not twice but over and over and over and over again.
Now is it true that estrogen and prog work synergistic to cause gyno? make it worse? Yes this is true.
Which brings us to my next topic. Nolvadex. Now its been debated many times if nolva can work with prob to induce gyno or make it worse. Some say yes and some say no.
I tend to say yes. Because (J Steroid Biochem Mol Biol. 2003 Sep;86(3-5):461-7) they found progesterone receptor expression increased well using nolvadex.
OK guess I am done
