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PCT fail


Welcome to the EliteFitness.com Bodybuilding Site! Please join this discussion about PCT fail within the Anabolic Steroids category.

Excerpt: Ok guys I'll try to make it short. I'm 22 years old, 6 years of training, 6ft, 198 lbs. 18% BF I did my first deca/test E cycle 3 months ago. 400 deca / 250 test E for 11 weeks. (No hair loss with that cycle) Arimidex (anastrozole) throught cycle as AI I gained 9-10 pounds. Week 1-10 DECA Week 1-11 Test E Week 11 OFF

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Thread: PCT fail

  1. #1
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    Lightbulb PCT fail

    Ok guys I'll try to make it short. I'm 22 years old, 6 years of training, 6ft, 198 lbs. 18% BF

    I did my first deca/test E cycle 3 months ago. 400 deca / 250 test E for 11 weeks. (No hair loss with that cycle)
    Arimidex (anastrozole) throught cycle as AI

    I gained 9-10 pounds.

    Week 1-10 DECA
    Week 1-11 Test E
    Week 11 OFF
    Week 12 PCT

    My PCT was Clomid 100/100/50/50 and Nolva 40/40/40/20/20 for 3-4 weeks.
    No HCG

    My balls were back on week 4 of PCT. I felt great, like I've recovered. No bloodwork (I know it's bad) because everything seemed fine.

    Probleme is, 1 month later my balls shrinks again. I begun to notice a loss of strenght and mass. So I did a bloodwork (soory for my english I'm french!) and i have no test at all....very very low. So I did another PCT (clomid and nolva). Now my balls don't shrink anymore, i still have no libido but my strenght seems to be back and I feel better. I'm going to continue the PCT and I'll check my blood soon to see if my Test is higher.
    Finally I've lost 7 pounds. So I can say I've lost all my gains.

    I ordered some HCG. But I hope Clomid and Nolva are enough to recover properly...
    My source can't get HCGenerate please don't talk abput that product.

    So what can i do the next time ? I want to do one last cycle in a few months (if I recover one day!!)
    But this time I'm gonna run HCG throught cycle and stop 2 weeks before PCT. So no shutdown and recovery easier. Right thing to do ?

    Then Clomid/Nolva. I'll add some test boosters (d-Aspartic Acid, ZMA, etc; maybe it can help)



    So any advice . What have I done wrong ?

  2. #2
    Amateur Bodybuilder joonp's Avatar
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    Re: PCT fail

    Why do u need to get hcgenerate from ur source? U can order it from ntbm urself. Works very good for me. I would run bloods for a definate answer to all ur probs.

    Sent from my SPH-L710 using EliteFitness

  3. #3
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    Re: PCT fail

    They ship in Europe ? is it legal ? I'll buy that thank you.

    Ok i have a big problem, 3 months after PCT and I havent recovered, no test and balls shrink. I'm losing gains again and again.
    I have clomid and I will get some HCG. How can I use the HCG/Clomid to get my balls back ? What dosage, how long.

    I found this but. I think it is only when the HPTA is completely shut down. No idea if it's my case. 2500 UI eod seems to be a lot!!

    Here is the Doc's protocol for HPTA recovery.


    I talked to the doc today on the phone and he answered many questions for me in regards to recovery of the HPTA.
    For those of you who don’t know what that is it is “Hypothalamus Pituitary Testicular Axis”
    After administration of AAS, you have shutdown of the HPTA. Depending on the meds taken shutdown can be severe and much does depend on the person as well.

    This is the protocol the doc said he used in literally thousands of users with suppressed HPTA.
    First thing, the 500iu a day was not enough to make the testicles do their job, he suggested this was just a waste of time and money.
    He suggests 8 shots of HCG @ 2500iu EOD.
    With this you take 20 mg of nolvadex for 45 days.
    Clomid is also taken but twice a day @ 50mg each dose 12 hours apart.

    The reason for the amounts of HCG (which is the most important part, if the balls don’t fire everything else is worthless), is based on his determination to bring the balls back to life, too little wont accomplish this, too much risks damage to the Leydig cells.
    So he basically was saying that you do the HCG and around day 10 of the above protocol, you should get a blood test for testosterone. If it is above 400 or greater then this says the balls will be just fine once you get off the HCG and the Clomid and nolva take over. This will accept the LH that you are putting out to maintain testicular function.
    He used the term like jumping a car. Your battery (Pituitary gland) if low wont start your car (your testicles), if you use another car and jumper cables (HCG) once the car starts your battery (HP part of the HPTA) will keep your car running.

    The clomid by itself he suggested can inhibit either the pituitary or the hypothalamus (can’t remember which one) but if taken with nolva this blocks the estrogen receptors so you wont inhibit that.
    So clomid in his protocol is always taken with nolvadex ALWAYS.

    He did mention that sometimes the balls just don’t take and then you do the protocol again. He said it was rare that he could not fire up the HPTA.
    He said that beings that I have good size difference (balls), feel good, strength gains, and a greasy face he felt I should have no problems with returning the HPTA.

    Some things he said was tribulis was actually inhibitory on the HPTA, great I wish I found that out after I bought two bottles.

    ZMA, he said if it made me feel good then go for it but it is placebo and the HCG, clomid, nolva was it and all that is needed.

    Talked to him about progesterone and he said never take that if you are a man (the last doc prescribed it to me)

    Sorry aftershock, I forgot to ask him about the GH question he was saying so much I was just trying to listen.

    One thing he did mention (in an article) was that HGH actually helped with the testicular recovery with things and adding that to the Protocol is a good idea and productive.

    Avoid aspirin when on HCG as it kind of ruins the effects.

    He said oxandrolone was suppressive on the HPTA, but Deca and Anadrol were probably the worst in his opinion. I asked him about tren but he had no knowledge as he never used it.
    He did mention that test in itself was not all that suppressive and he has seen guys on 18 months that came off and made a full recovery in 45 days with the above protocol.

    He said one of the best ways was 12 weeks of test, followed by the above protocol, then start another 12 weeks followed by the above protocol with a month off after that then start again.

    He did say that desensitization to HCG took around 2 months, and the dose of 2500 was fine and no damage or desensitization would occur if you followed his protocol.

    There it is.

  4. #4
    Da Pope RickRock13's Avatar
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    Re: PCT fail

    Your balls shrunk back up because you didn't run a proper PCT. Clomid and Nolva will stimulate your LH and plump your nuts up, but it is temporary. They are not effective means of recovery by themselves. Also HCG should never be ran the whole cycle. It becomes counterproductive to recovery the longer you run it. It should only be used a 2-4 weeks before PCT as a kickstart.


    Next time run a proper PCT. This is what I recommend:


    Liquid Clomid 50/50/25/25 (AncillaryGuys // AG-Guys.com - The #1 online Natural Ancillary retailer!)
    Liquid Aromasin (AncillaryGuys // AG-Guys.com - The #1 online Natural Ancillary retailer!)
    Test Stack 17 or PHYTOSERMS (see link below for info and discounts)
    Ostarine 25mg per day (SARMS1.COM - The best Selective androgen receptor modulators)

    http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/bo...r-1257533.html

    http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/bo...l-1260633.html
    PM me for help with your cycle, PCT, and discounts from forum sponsors

    Click here for the Best Supplements from N2BM

  5. #5
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    Re: PCT fail

    RickRock13 thank you a lot.

    I'm gonna order thinks by n2BM, what are their best products for PCT? Is it legal ?
    Now what can I do to recover ? Can i use HCG to recover ? How?

    Thank you j need help

  6. #6
    Amateur Bodybuilder joonp's Avatar
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    Re: PCT fail

    Ive used test infusion, daa power chews, forged post cycle. Hcgenerate is also helpful. All legal.

    Sent from my SPH-L710 using EliteFitness

  7. #7
    Da Pope RickRock13's Avatar
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    Re: PCT fail

    Quote Quote posted by Hiver13 View Post
    RickRock13 thank you a lot.

    I'm gonna order thinks by n2BM, what are their best products for PCT? Is it legal ?
    Now what can I do to recover ? Can i use HCG to recover ? How?

    Thank you j need help
    Everything sold at N2BM is legal, and so is everything I listed in my recommendations above.
    PM me for help with your cycle, PCT, and discounts from forum sponsors

    Click here for the Best Supplements from N2BM

  8. #8
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    Re: PCT fail

    I'll go with :

    SERMS to kick the balls :
    - Clomid
    - Nolvadex
    Test Boosters that seems to work :
    - HCGenerate
    - Phytoserms

    Good PCT, right ?


    But now my question is, I have still not recovered, no test, no libido. Everything i'll have is clomid and HCG.
    How can you kick your boys back with HCG ? I have 5000 IU. 600 IU EOD (8 injections) can do the work ? Then clomid. Is this a good idea ?

  9. #9
    Amateur Bodybuilder John McLane's Avatar
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    Re: PCT fail

    Quote Quote posted by Hiver13 View Post
    Ok guys I'll try to make it short. I'm 22 years old, 6 years of training, 6ft, 198 lbs. 18% BF

    I did my first deca/test E cycle 3 months ago. 400 deca / 250 test E for 11 weeks. (No hair loss with that cycle)
    Arimidex (anastrozole) throught cycle as AI

    I gained 9-10 pounds.

    Week 1-10 DECA
    Week 1-11 Test E
    Week 11 OFF
    Week 12 PCT

    My PCT was Clomid 100/100/50/50 and Nolva 40/40/40/20/20 for 3-4 weeks.
    No HCG

    My balls were back on week 4 of PCT. I felt great, like I've recovered. No bloodwork (I know it's bad) because everything seemed fine.

    Probleme is, 1 month later my balls shrinks again. I begun to notice a loss of strenght and mass. So I did a bloodwork (soory for my english I'm french!) and i have no test at all....very very low. So I did another PCT (clomid and nolva). Now my balls don't shrink anymore, i still have no libido but my strenght seems to be back and I feel better. I'm going to continue the PCT and I'll check my blood soon to see if my Test is higher.
    Finally I've lost 7 pounds. So I can say I've lost all my gains.

    I ordered some HCG. But I hope Clomid and Nolva are enough to recover properly...
    My source can't get HCGenerate please don't talk abput that product.

    So what can i do the next time ? I want to do one last cycle in a few months (if I recover one day!!)
    But this time I'm gonna run HCG throught cycle and stop 2 weeks before PCT. So no shutdown and recovery easier. Right thing to do ?

    Then Clomid/Nolva. I'll add some test boosters (d-Aspartic Acid, ZMA, etc; maybe it can help)



    So any advice . What have I done wrong ?
    You should of run the HCG at week 11,and HCGenertae throughout.

  10. #10

    Re: PCT fail

    hcg should not b used at all during a cycle. Pct should be hcg start 1 week after last pin clomid 2 weeks post last pin always brings my boys back and bloods always show up with good total T after 4 weeks PCT.. Keep in mind this is a test only 400 weekly ten weeks I run. I always gain good muscle and keep 80%. I'm 6' 240 43 yrs old been lifting 30+ years. My sports doc gave me this pct plan when I started TT last year

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