Please Scroll Down to See Forums Below I'm running a SUS 500 a week cycle for 8 weeks. This is my first cycle and i intend to use Clomid in week 9 and 10. Do you guys i think i should also take Nolvadex with SUS during my cycle. I have read that it somewhat kills your gains. Some say, its a myth and nothing more. Any opinions.
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Nolvadex kills gains, true or false
- Thread starter f4209211
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I would keep nolvadex on hand just in case. It does lower IGF-1 which is good for building muscle, but if your gyno prone it should be ran to prevent symptoms from getting worse. The only way to know if your prone is if you run aromatising steriods and get symptoms. Or if you got symptoms as a young lad.
hhajdo
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by Bill Roberts
Nolvadex is very comparable to Clomid, behaves in the same manner in all tissues, and is a mixed estrogen agonist/antagonist of the same type as Clomid. The two molecules are also very similar in structure.
It is not correct that Nolvadex reduces levels of estrogen: rather, it blocks estrogen from estrogen receptors and, in those tissues where it is an antagonist, causes the receptor to do nothing.
The claim that Nolvadex reduces gains should not be taken too seriously. The fact is that any number of bodybuilders have made excellent gains while using Nolvadex. The belief that it reduces gains seems to stem from the fact that the scientific literature reports a slight reduction in IGF-1 (individuals using anabolic steroids were not studied though) from use of Nolvadex. Thus, Dan Duchaine reported that it reduces IGF-1 and therefore reduces gains. However, if this effect exists at all, it must be very minor, due to the excellent gains that many have made, and from the fact that no one has noticed any such thing from Clomid, which has the same activity profile.
However, I would not be surprised if one were to tell a steroid user that Clomid reduced his gains, he would immediately become afraid that Clomid reduced his gains (please note that no one I have ever heard of has noticed this.) Not having been so misled, however, he would not conclude this from his results. But if an authority publishes that such an effect occurs, whether it does or not it can become self-fulfilling by biasing the user.
The fact that Nolvadex will reduce water retention may result in the user agreeing that gains are less, since weight gain is less, thus reinforcing the bias.
Nolvadex is very comparable to Clomid, behaves in the same manner in all tissues, and is a mixed estrogen agonist/antagonist of the same type as Clomid. The two molecules are also very similar in structure.
It is not correct that Nolvadex reduces levels of estrogen: rather, it blocks estrogen from estrogen receptors and, in those tissues where it is an antagonist, causes the receptor to do nothing.
The claim that Nolvadex reduces gains should not be taken too seriously. The fact is that any number of bodybuilders have made excellent gains while using Nolvadex. The belief that it reduces gains seems to stem from the fact that the scientific literature reports a slight reduction in IGF-1 (individuals using anabolic steroids were not studied though) from use of Nolvadex. Thus, Dan Duchaine reported that it reduces IGF-1 and therefore reduces gains. However, if this effect exists at all, it must be very minor, due to the excellent gains that many have made, and from the fact that no one has noticed any such thing from Clomid, which has the same activity profile.
However, I would not be surprised if one were to tell a steroid user that Clomid reduced his gains, he would immediately become afraid that Clomid reduced his gains (please note that no one I have ever heard of has noticed this.) Not having been so misled, however, he would not conclude this from his results. But if an authority publishes that such an effect occurs, whether it does or not it can become self-fulfilling by biasing the user.
The fact that Nolvadex will reduce water retention may result in the user agreeing that gains are less, since weight gain is less, thus reinforcing the bias.
f4209211 said:
You will here both sides of the debate and both will claim they are correct. Just make sure the people taking one side or the other actually has the "experience" to back up their claim.
Last cycle when I added 40mg of Nolvadex a day it didn't slow down my gains one bit.
I also use nolvadex at 20mg ed during my cycles and it doesn't seem to slow me down either as I am gyno prone and have know this for years. But I think gains would be even better if I didn't use tamoxifen. In theory that is. Nolvadex does lower IGF-1. That MAY hinder gains. To a great extent? Probably not. But between using nolvadex if I have to during cycle and not having to use it....I would rather exclude nolvadex from a cycle.mvmaxx said:
S
Spartacus
Guest
someone should probably point out that he doesn't need to start clomid till 3 weeks after his last injection
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