My Experience With SARMS

[Carlito B]

Nice write up,

Is Sarms an alternative to dbol? No, if your looking for the swollin dbol look, this is not your compound.

If you are looking for the "beach body" look or if you need a funtional compound(undetectabble as wel) that will make you, stronger,faster and leaner and not shut down your HPTA....bingo...you have found it.

So true, especially about the true performance enhancing effects such as increased endurance.

I have used my fair share of steroids in my earlier years and now at 36 years old of age I am not looking to gain freaky vascularity and mass since I already attained that, my muscles have mature and have shaped up to where I wanted them to be at. These days I eat a moderate diet and train with weight 5 days per week followed by 30 minutes of cardio, even though I still lift I focus on conditioning mainly and S4 has helped me shed more body fat and improve my performance.

C

 

[doublebicep]

60mg ed

At 60mg per day, it looks like you have enough for a few days needto! lol...

Any idea what the self life might be?

 

[mrplunkey]

What about this for a 42 year old who has done seven cycles since 2004:

- 10 weeks of low dose test ethanate (maybe with a little provarion or anavar)
- PCT
- 5 weeks of nothing
- 5 weeks of SARMS

Rinse, repeat.

 

[Dogfox]

Read my whole post

I did. .5mgs per KG for 100kg man = 8mgs is what prompted my quote and response.

 

[ceo]

I did. .5mgs per KG for 100kg man = 8mgs is what prompted my quote and response.

Yeah, the math doesn't work. 0.5 x 100 = 50.

Done. Move on.

 

[Nelson Montana]

What about this for a 42 year old who has done seven cycles since 2004:

- 10 weeks of low dose test ethanate (maybe with a little provarion or anavar)
- PCT
- 5 weeks of nothing
- 5 weeks of SARMS

Rinse, repeat.

The 5 weeks with nothing will make you feel like shitAFter HRT dosing for 10-12 weeks I'd suggest HMG followed by low dose SARMS and some supps like UNLEASHED, POST CYCLE, BRIDGE, LO-PROLAC and HCGenerate. That'll hold you nicely for a couple of months then you can jump back on fresh.

 

[hormoneman]

Yeah, the math doesn't work. 0.5 x 100 = 50.

Done. Move on.

You have to convert the animal dose to human dose

Here's a paper on converting animal doses to humans

Dose translation from animal to human studies revisited -- Reagan-Shaw et al. 22 (3): 659 -- The FASEB Journal

As the abstract states, "The animal dose should not be extrapolated to a human equivalent dose (HED) by a simple conversion based on body weight..." The FDA has stated that the extrapolation of animal dose to human dose is correctly performed only through normalization to body surface area. To convert mg/kg in rats to mg/kg in humans, you multiply by 0.162 (6/37). For mice to humans, multiply by 0.081 (3/37). There are several other values for other animals.

.5 x 100 x .162 = 8.1

 

[ceo]

You have to convert the animal dose to human dose

Here's a paper on converting animal doses to humans

Dose translation from animal to human studies revisited -- Reagan-Shaw et al. 22 (3): 659 -- The FASEB Journal

As the abstract states, "The animal dose should not be extrapolated to a human equivalent dose (HED) by a simple conversion based on body weight..." The FDA has stated that the extrapolation of animal dose to human dose is correctly performed only through normalization to body surface area. To convert mg/kg in rats to mg/kg in humans, you multiply by 0.162 (6/37). For mice to humans, multiply by 0.081 (3/37). There are several other values for other animals.

.5 x 100 x .162 = 8.1

You have to start with the RIGHT NUMBERS first though!

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/a...-will-trying-out-soon-678919.html#post9116141

In the post above is where I told you all of this.

This preliminary study on S-4 in rats found that anabolism in muscle was maxed out at around 0.75 mg or 2.82 mg/kg per day (see results in the levator ani, bottom figure). When corrected for body surface area and converted to dosing for humans, that's a dose of 0.46 mg/kg. As a theoretical extrapolation to a 200 lb (91kg) man, a dose of only 42 mg/day maxes out the anabolic response. That may sound low, but it's still 14 times higher than the highest dose they used in the clinical trials, 3mg, which was still sufficient to produce an anabolic effect. You definitely don't need hundreds of mgs per day.

Notice the studies are linked in that quote? So the one study found that muscle anabolism was maxed out at around 2.82mg/kg per day (let's round that to 3 for easy math sake). Ok so, you're on the right track. 3mg/kg/day in rats converted to humans based on the BSA dose translation formula (Human Equivalent Dose(mg/kg) = Animal Dose(mg/kg) multiplied by Animal Km factor divided by Human Km factor) is:

3mg/kg x 6 (Rat Km) / 37 (Human Km) = 0.486mg/kg HED

0.486mg/kg x 105kg human = 51.03mg/day

It looks like you were taking the already extrapolated dose of 0.50mg/kg and converting it again to the HED. It helps when you start off with the right numbers.

 

[Dogfox]

You have to start with the RIGHT NUMBERS first though!

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/a...-will-trying-out-soon-678919.html#post9116141

In the post above is where I told you all of this.



Notice the studies are linked in that quote? So the one study found that muscle anabolism was maxed out at around 2.82mg/kg per day (let's round that to 3 for easy math sake). Ok so, you're on the right track. 3mg/kg/day in rats converted to humans based on the BSA dose translation formula (Human Equivalent Dose(mg/kg) = Animal Dose(mg/kg) multiplied by Animal Km factor divided by Human Km factor) is:

3mg/kg x 6 (Rat Km) / 37 (Human Km) = 0.486mg/kg HED

0.486mg/kg x 105kg human = 51.03mg/day

It looks like you were taking the already extrapolated dose of 0.50mg/kg and converting it again to the HED. It helps when you start off with the right numbers.

It also helps when you read your own post:
"When corrected for body surface area and converted to dosing for humans, the dose that maxes out the anabolic response would be around 0.46 mg/kg. In a 200 lb male, that works out to about 40 mg/day"

So he had the right numbers in his post...he just didnt read it.

Thank you for clearing this up ceo

 

[ceo]

It also helps when you read your own post:
"When corrected for body surface area and converted to dosing for humans, the dose that maxes out the anabolic response would be around 0.46 mg/kg. In a 200 lb male, that works out to about 40 mg/day"

So he had the right numbers in his post...he just didnt read it.

Thank you for clearing this up ceo

that was actually my post from another thread, but still he was on the right track...just think he did the conversion twice or something.