Mirtazapine - Good Option?

[catulo]

What do you think about MIRTAZAPINE for the ppct and Post Cycle? (ppct = pre post cicle terapy)

L. Rea use mirtazapine in somes Post Cycles (mirtazapine 15mg/day x 4weeks)

i think 15mg/day for 2 week or less are meaby good idea for control of cortisol

Endocrinological effects of mirtazapine in healthy volunteers.
Schüle C, Baghai T, Bidlingmaier M, Strasburger C, Laakmann G.

Psychiatric Hospital, University of Munich, Munich, Germany. [email protected]

OBJECTIVE: Unlike other antidepressants, mirtazapine does not inhibit the reuptake of norepinephrine or serotonin (5-HT) but acts as an antagonist at presynaptic alpha2-receptors and at postsynaptic 5-HT2, 5-HT3 and histamine H1-receptors. In the present investigation, the influence of acute oral administration of 15-mg mirtazapine on the cortisol (COR), adrenocorticotropin (ACTH), growth hormone (gh - growth hormone (somatropin) - - growth hormone (somatropin) - - growth hormone (somatropin) - ) and prolactin (PRL) secretion was examined in 12 healthy male subjects, compared to placebo. METHODS: After insertion of an intravenous catheter, both the mean arterial blood pressure (MAP) and the heart rate were recorded and blood samples were drawn 1 h prior to the administration of mirtazapine or placebo (7:00 a.m.), at time of administration (8:00 a.m.) and during 5 h thereafter in periods of 30 min. Concentrations of COR, ACTH, GH and PRL were measured in each blood sample by double antibody radioimmunoassay and chemiluminescence immunoassay methods. The area under the curve (AUC; 0-300 min after mirtazapine or placebo administration) was used as parameter for the COR, ACTH, GH and PRL response. Furthermore, the urinary free cortisol excretion (UFC) was determined beginning at 8:00 a.m. (time of administration of placebo or mirtazapine) up to 8:00 a.m. the day after. RESULTS: Two-sided t-tests for paired samples revealed significantly lower COR AUC, ACTH AUC, UFC and PRL AUC values after 15-mg mirtazapine compared to placebo, whereas no significant differences were found with respect to GH AUC, MAP and heart rate. CONCLUSIONS: Since the acute inhibition of COR secretion in the healthy volunteers was paralleled by a simultaneous decrease of ACTH release, central mechanisms (e.g., inhibition of hypothalamic corticotropin releasing hormone (CRH) output) are suggested to be responsible for the inhibitory effects of mirtazapine on COR secretion. Our results are of particular interest in the light of the hypercortisolism observed in depressed patients and new pharmacological approaches such as CRH1 receptor antagonists.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=ShowDetailView&TermToSearch=12502011
PMID: 12502011 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Time course of hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenocortical axis activity during treatment with reboxetine and mirtazapine in depressed patients.
Schüle C, Baghai TC, Eser D, Zwanzger P, Jordan M, Buechs R, Rupprecht R.

Department of Psychiatry and Psychotherapy, Ludwig-Maximilian University of Munich, Nussbaumstr 7, Munich, 80336, Germany. [email protected]

RATIONALE: In healthy subjects, cortisol and ACTH secretion are acutely stimulated by reboxetine and inhibited by mirtazapine. However, it was not investigated so far whether reboxetine and mirtazapine may also differ in their impact on hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenocortical (HPA) axis activity in depressed patients and whether these effects are related to clinical outcome. OBJECTIVES: In the present study, we investigated the impact of 5-week treatment with reboxetine or mirtazapine on the combined dexamethasone suppression/corticotropin releasing hormone (DEX/CRH) test results in depressed patients. METHODS: Forty drug-free patients suffering from a major depressive episode (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders-IV criteria) were treated with either reboxetine (8 mg/day; n=20) or mirtazapine (45 mg/day; n=20) for 5 weeks. Before, after 1 and 5 weeks of therapy, the DEX/CRH test was performed and cortisol and ACTH concentrations were measured. RESULTS: During reboxetine treatment, a gradual and significant reduction in HPA axis activity as measured by the DEX/CRH test was seen, which was most pronounced after 5 weeks of treatment. In contrast, mirtazapine significantly reduced the cortisol and ACTH concentrations during the DEX/CRH test within 1 week. However, after 5 weeks of mirtazapine treatment, the cortisol and ACTH responses to the DEX/CRH test partially increased again both in responders and nonresponders. CONCLUSIONS: This is the first study demonstrating differential effects of various antidepressants on the time course of serial DEX/CRH test results in depressed patients.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=ShowDetailView&TermToSearch=16758243
PMID: 16758243 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

The Side Effects

Doses: 5mg/day to 60mg/day

Mirtazapine(n=453) Placebo(n=361)

Body as a Whole
Asthenia 8% 5%
Flu Syndrome 5% 3%
Back Pain 2% 1%
Digestive System
Dry Mouth 25% 15%
Increased Appetite 17% 2%
Constipation 13% 7%
Metabolic and Nutritional Disorders
Weight Gain 12% 2%
Peripheral Edema 2% 1%
Edema 1% 0%
Musculoskeletal System
Myalgia 2% 1%
Nervous System
Somnolence 54% 18%
Dizziness 7% 3%
Abnormal Dreams 4% 1%
Thinking Abnormal 3% 1%
Tremor 2% 1%
Confusion 2% 0%
Respiratory System
Dyspnea 1% 0%
Urogenital System
Urinary Frequency 2% 1%

www.drugs.com

Visit for more information:
http://www.dr-bob.org/tips/split/Mirtazapine-side-effects.html

Physical and Psychological Dependence

Mirtazapine has not been systematically studied in animals or humans for its potential for abuse, tolerance or physical dependence. While the clinical trials did not reveal any tendency for any drug-seeking behavior, these observations were not systematic and it is not possible to predict on the basis of this limited experience the extent to which a CNS-active drug will be misused, diverted and/or abused once marketed. Consequently, patients should be evaluated carefully for history of drug abuse, and such patients should be observed closely for signs of mirtazapine misuse or abuse (e.g., development of tolerance, incrementations of dose, drug-seeking behavior).

www.drugs.com

By J.C.

 

[Jacob Creutzfeldt]

Cool post. Look at some of the research regarding tianeptine and Gh release. I wonder if there are studies available comparing the potential anabolic actions of various anti-depressants.

To be buff and happy...

 

[catulo]

i dont know if are available those studies

 

[catulo]

bump!

somebody go to say something?

 

[lmm23]

I really wouldn't go near Mirtazapine. I was taking for some time and I think I'm still being affected by it now. The first thing that went post-drug was my appetite, and I stopped being able to sleep through the night. Almost a year on, I am only now able to sleep past 4am. I put this down to it fucking with my cortisol, and a re-bound effect when I came off it, since cortisol rises in the early morning. I thinking I need to correct this with something that will alter the cortisol to testosterone ratio. Also. I put on tons of body fat, which took a while to go, and had bad odema, and anxiety which is still there. Point is, the effects can really linger, and all anti-depressants cause some irreversible brain function.

 

[Bruce]

ive taken it for 7 years now for sleep. it works wonders for insomnia but it is not something you can take if you don't plan on being asleep. mirtazapine or remeron its real name is used for making people sleep though it is not a sleeping pill. it has no effect on your hormones except it slightly can suppress prolactin from being released. i have studied the drug since it was first used along with a doctor. where are you getting this b.s from. you don't use it for pct and you don't lose sleep from it. i know about 20 other people who all use it for sleep. it knocks you out cold and it is not arguable. most can't wake up the next day, its not that it keeps you up. you certainly will put on weight as it increases appetite in an insane way. almost like eq.

 

[r1]

Remeron is some powerful shit, man. I would not play with it for PCT.

I took it for about year during a period of bad insomnia. It knocked me flat on my ass every night. I always felt a bit "hungover" the next day for part of the day and I gained weight on it. All in all, I was happy to get off of it! I don't recall the dose I was on, but I do recall weird shit like seeing lightning bolts when my eyes were closed.

R1

 

[lmm23]

Bruce, you're missing the point. No-one says it isn't good for sleep - it is perfect for sleep. I was once on as much as 45mg, and I couldn't help but sleep for more than 12hrs / day. As for it having no effect on hormones, check the research.

The problem can be when you come off it. I was on it for 2 1/2 years. Insomnia as withdrawl is definitely an issue.

 

[Bruce]

yea i take 45mg, wasn't bad mouthing you bro. just saying its a strong drug and should not be toyed with for pct, makes me nervous to see bros talking that way

 

[catulo]

Originally posted by Duc from CEM Forums
No significant side effects at that dose. Take it approximately one hour before bedtime, gives me very good sleep. It is also a relief if you feel a bit down around PCT - post cycle therapy - - post cycle therapy - . Some people will notice a very slight increase in liver enzymes, LDL and triglycerides, but I am OK (I use sesamin and milk thistle anyway, which works very good for me).

You might feel a bit tired first day after starting it.

I do not recommend to increase the dosage (unless you suffer from anxiety and your doc recommends it). Many people prescribed this medicine (Remeron seems to be popular) use 30 mgr ED, but this might easily lead to fat accumulation and a more pronounced sense of being tired.

Many BBs where I live use it at 15mgr ED for 3-5 weeks around PCT, and our anecdotal experience suggests that it makes it easier to keep mass.

I see that in another board

Originally posted by Bruce
ive taken it for 7 years now for sleep.

The idea are 15 days or less, 15mg/day, no 7 years and/or 30mg/day or more



However, it is olny informative post for me. For now, i dont try mirtazapine (meaby in the future, whit more information)