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Research Chemical SciencesUGFREAKeudomestic
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Good Estrogen - Bad Estrogen - And Your Muscles

Nelson Montana

Chairman of Board
Chairman Member
Remember when testosterone was broken up into "god" and "bad", much like cholesterol? They used to say that DHT was bad. Well, it turns out that DHT, although having no anabolic effect, is necessary for muscle hardness, it prevents the formation of estrones and is directly related to erection rigidy. Who wouldn't want more?! As it turn out, there's no such thing as "bad" testosterone. It's ALL good! Yea! :)

What is less often addressed is the types of estrogen. Now most bodybuilders find estrogen to be as appealing as an albino is to a trip to the equater. But we all need some estrogen. But just like HDL and LDL cholesterol, we want to keep the good and lose the bad.

When using anti-e's it might be a good time to add some "good" estrogen. Primrose oil is great for bodybuilders on gear because it helps the body produce prostaglandins as well as containing EFA's and GLA. This can help with joint mobility, cholesterol, liver enzymes and endurance. One problem -- Primrose oil is slightly estrogenic. But it has more of the "good" estrogens so it would be a good time to take it on days when you use your anti-e.

Prenenolone is another interesting substance in that it's sort of a super charged DHEA master hormone. It raises both T and e. Taking it along with an anti-e may leave the good without the bad.

Now what are these "bad" estrogens? Well, technically, it's a metabolite (16 alpha hydroxy estrone) and in short, it's responsible for all the nasty estrogen shit including gyno, prostate hyperthrophy and cancer.

Now stick with me for a minute. This is important.

We all know there are essentially two types of anti-e's -- the type that block and/or remove estrogen or SERM's -- the type that are estrogens themselves and prevent the formation of more estrogen. The first is classified as a suicide inhibitors and the other as a competitive inhibitor.

Still with me? Good. It gets easier now.

Let me interject a personal statement right now. I never liked the concept of a "competitive" estrogen. I don't want more estrogen. I don't like estrogen. Why try to occupy estrogen receptor sites when you can just kill the bastards? In short, love a-dex, femmera -- hate clomid and nolvadex.

There are estrogens and anti estrogens all over the place. Like those microwaved dinners in plastic? It's loaded with titty juice. Of course you can't escape it, but you can fight it.

There are also estrogens and ANTI estrogens in nature. (Isoflavones from soy are estrogenic. Bad. ) But natural anti-e's intrigued me so I went to work with some experimentation. What was esspecially fascinating is that natural anti-e's work similarly to their drug counterparts. There are estrogen-like compounds that SUPPOSEDLY take up the estrogen site preventing the formation or additional estrogen... and then there are estrogen REMOVERS.

Guess which ones I like better?

DIM is a phyto estrogen sold as a natural anti-e. I've used the stuff and I must say, the effects were almost exactly that of clomid. In other words, IT MADE ME FEEL LIKE A WEEPY BITCH WHOSE DICK FELL OFF!!! So much for natural SERMS.

Then there are natural eliminators -- calcium D glucarate and to a lesser degree chrysin. What's so great about calcium D Glucarate is that it's especially agressive in removing the 16 AHE -- remeber that? It's the BAD METABOLITE of estrogen that causes gyno and all that shit.

Now when I went about designing an anti e I could have put some DIM in there. Or some bullshit prohormone like AIFM and be done with it. But I wanted to use what I found to be most effective. Now I'll be perfectly honest. If Clomid works for you -- DIM may too! But I don't sell it because I don't like it. (Hey, it's my shit, I can do what I want).

Actually I don't technically sell anything. But obviously I want people to know about my product. For more info, check it out: http://proteinfactory.com/shop/product.php?productid=110&cat=0&page=1

So what's the lesson here? Testosterone GOOD. Estrogen...well, bad, but maybe it's mainly the bad that's bad. And as far as controlling estrogen during and after a cycle, find what works best for you.

For years I tried to convince people that Clomid may not be the best choice for PCT and that notion faced fierce opposition. (Okay, more likecontempt, vile, derrision, discourse and hate. But what the hell, I'm used to it).

Today, the tide has changed. (There's a certain gratification to that I must admit).

Clomid will always have its place because, if it works for you, it works. But it doesn't work for a lot of people and the alternative may work just as well if not better. And in either case, adding a natural substance to increase recovery and the removal of more "bad" estrogen can only help.
 
So which supplement from Protein Factory bro?

Post Cycle??????

Spell it out, I have a Ph D but I am not that smart!

LOL!!!
 
Stryker1992 said:
So which supplement from Protein Factory bro?

Post Cycle??????

Spell it out, I have a Ph D but I am not that smart!

LOL!!!


LOL.

Let me say right now that any supplement is meant to SUPPLEMENT. That means it helps, it assures health and may result in needing less of a drug. But it is not intended to be a replacement. (Although in some cases it may be all you need).

Yes, POST CYCLE can help with estrogen removal. It's a total PCT for the guy using gear -- liver detox, libido enhancer, estro elliminator.

UNLEASHED increases free testosterone which can be helpful PC but also in between cycles and while "on" to make the most of the extra T.

The other stuff -- primrose oil, pregnonlone etc can be found in any health food store or online supp house.
 
Let's say for a second that I do agree w/ you.
For PCT you would recommend adex and natural remedies?
 
Mac173 said:
Let's say for a second that I do agree w/ you.
For PCT you would recommend adex and natural remedies?

Arimidex is MORE effective than ANY natural estrogen reducer.

Proviron is MORE effective than ANY natural herb that increases FREE TEST.

HCG does what NOTHING else can do.


I think that Nelson is suggesting to run a STANDARD PCT with standard pharmaceutical drugs, but to SUPPLEMENT that regimen with some of his herbal forumlations.

There is NO herbal forumlation that can replace a proper PCT.
 
I love estrogen myself, and no I'm not kidding. I welcome more of it. It keeps my sex drive going, makes me look bigger and I am bigger, and it makes me stronger. I must have no estro receptors in my nipples thank god otherwise I believe it would be my enemy.
 
- Ross - said:
Arimidex is MORE effective than ANY natural estrogen reducer.

Proviron is MORE effective than ANY natural herb that increases FREE TEST.

HCG does what NOTHING else can do.


I think that Nelson is suggesting to run a STANDARD PCT with standard pharmaceutical drugs, but to SUPPLEMENT that regimen with some of his herbal forumlations.

There is NO herbal forumlation that can replace a proper PCT.

What is your opinion on clomid/nolva?
 
Mac173 said:
Let's say for a second that I do agree w/ you.
For PCT you would recommend adex and natural remedies?

Depends. Like I said, if Clomid works, use it but try some natural stuff along with it. It can only help. If you're really prone to gyno use Nolva but I have to say, there's just as good a chance of getting gyno after you stop so Nolva, in general, kinda sucks. You're better off avaiding the gear that causes it.

Persoanlly I'd use HCG with adex after a heavy cycle to get the balls back on court followed by adex and supps.

Ross: True -- Proviron will increase more free test than UNLEASHED -- but no much! And it's a drug so you can't stay on forever.

Since free test is so important I think everyone should make the most of it.

You have 4 choices -- Proviron, Winstrol, Muara Puama and Avenacosides.

Winstrol and Proviron are liver toxic (proviron less so) UNLEASHED has Muara Puama and Avenacosides.
 
- Ross - said:
Arimidex is MORE effective than ANY natural estrogen reducer.

Proviron is MORE effective than ANY natural herb that increases FREE TEST.

HCG does what NOTHING else can do.


I think that Nelson is suggesting to run a STANDARD PCT with standard pharmaceutical drugs, but to SUPPLEMENT that regimen with some of his herbal forumlations.

There is NO herbal forumlation that can replace a proper PCT.


Ross...so tell me how you would use adex and proviron for pct?

I am familiar with hcg/nolva/etc.
 
Nelson Montana said:
Depends. Like I said, if Clomid works, use it but try some natural stuff along with it. It can only help. If you're really prone to gyno use Nolva but I have to say, there's just as good a chance of getting gyno after you stop so Nolva, in general, kinda sucks. You're better off avaiding the gear that causes it.

Persoanlly I'd use HCG with adex after a heavy cycle to get the balls back on court followed by adex and supps.

Ross: True -- Proviron will increase more free test than UNLEASHED -- but no much! And it's a drug so you can't stay on forever.

Since free test is so important I think everyone should make the most of it.

You have 4 choices -- Proviron, Winstrol, Muara Puama and Avenacosides.

Winstrol and Proviron are liver toxic (proviron less so) UNLEASHED has Muara Puama and Avenacosides.


Actually, Eurycoma Longfolia(Tongkat Ali, Longkjack) is the MOST effective herb for increasing FREE TEST. It binds so AVIDLY to SHBG, it is almost comparable to Proviron, Winstrol, and Turinabol!

Check this out!.....



Preliminary Biological Activity:
Preliminary biological activity:
i) testosterone level
- incubation of E. longifolia aqueous extract in rat testicular homogenate
- steroid hormones (testosterone) analysis – capillary gas chromatography
Steroid Hormone Level LJ100 ®Extract Control
Testosterone 3.91 ±0.73 1.53 ±0.19
Progesterone 23.62 ±1.25 trace
17-OH Progesterone 5.28 ±0.46 0.95 ±0.23

LJ100® helps to activate enzymes activities that convert pregnenolone and 17-OH pregnenolone into progesterone and 17-OH progesterone.


Control
Prenenolone
LJ100®

An a
2.52
1.62
6.64

*
+0.12
+0.28
+0.44

An b &
2.64
1.99
0.38

Andien b
+0.09
+0.44
+0.11

An a, an b, and andien b are steroid metabolites that belongs to 16-androstenes steroid family, also known as pheromones are axillary secretion responsible in the synthesis of odour. An a plays an important role in communication, psychological and sexual behavior both in human and animals. This study shows that LJ100® is not only capable in increasing the testosterone production but at the same time it also influences the synthesis of pheromones.


Pregnenolone metabolite analysis in mice
ug steroid/10 mg protein

Steroid Extract Blank Control LJ100® (2) LJ100 (3)
5a-androstenone * * * *
androstenedione * * * 0.08
andien b & an-b 4.05 2.68 0.88 1.42
an-a 22.57 32.7 109.99 207.26
5-androstediol * * * *
5a-DHT * * * *
4-androstenedione * * * 0.07
testosterone 0.98 1.68 2.43 2.87
5a-androstane-diol * * * *
7-OH preg 2.43 5.15 1.41 1.31
progesterone 3.36 6.39 12.30 13.20

Note that there is no elevation of the dihydrotestosterone.


ug steroid/10 mg protein

Steroid % increase Blank Control LJ100® (2) LJ100® (3)
testosterone 180% 0.98 1.68 2.43 2.87
progesterone 190% 3.36 6.39 12.30 13.20

Steroid metabolite analysis (in human testes)

ug steroid/10 mg protein

Steroid Derivatives Control Pregnenolone LJ100®
5a-Androstane-3a,17 b-diol 5.12± 1.06 7.89 ± 0.82 5.75 ±0.32
5-Androstenediol 8.19 ±0.31 11.39 ±0.75 7.42 ±0.19
5a-Dihydrotestosterone 21.24 ±2.13 25.44 ±2.25 20.53 ±0.61
16-Dehydropregnenolone 3.72 ±2.04 3.94 ±0.91 4.86 ±0.94
testosterone 2.48 ±0.96 2.91 ±0.76 12.91 ±1.0
17-Hydroxypregnenolone 0.11 ±0.02 0.76 ±0.04 0.09 ±0.00
4-Androstenedione 18.33 ±4.21 21.58 ±0.94 24.51 ±1.83

Treatment effect towards testosterone concentration in rat Leydig Cells

Treatment Testosterone Concentration (pg/ml) % increase
Control 8.92 ±1.68
hCG 13.14 ±2.61 47.27
lac 13.03 ±3.10 46.11
LJ100® 19.38 ±2.70 119.77

hCG- Human Chrorionic Gonadotropin

lac-lactate

Based on the steroid biosynthesis pathways, CYP17 was selected for this study;

CYP17 that converts pregnelolone ® 17-OH pregnenolone ® DHEA or Progesterone ® 17-OH progesterone ® Androstenedione

Relative values for CYP17 gene following incubation with LJ100®

Treatment
Relative Values

hcg
1.157 ± 282.0

LJ100®
3.807 ± 0.590


CYP17 (17 a-hyroxylase/17,20 lyase) involves in the early stage of steroid biosynthesis. Result from this study showed that LJ100 ®significantly increased the expression of CYP17 gene compred to the positive control (hCG). The observed effect towards CYP17 gene expression might suggests that more of this enzyme is being produced, which will enhanced the matabolism of pregnenolone and 17-OH pregnenolone to yield more dehyroepiandrosterone (DHEA) as well as the metabolism of progesterone and 17-OH progesterone to 4-androstenedione. This process is important in testosterone biosynthesis as DHEA and 4-androstenedione will be directly converted to testosterone.




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Anabolic Study of LJ100®
Sareena Hanim Hamzah & Ashril Yusof

Department of Exercise Physiology, Sports Centre, University of Malaya, Kuala Lumpur

Testosterone is renown biochemically for its anabolic nature and net effect of increasing metabolic rate and enhancing the process of biosynthesis. In this study, seven male subjects aged between 26-32 years took 100mg of LJ100 for a period of 8 weeks. Simultaneously, subjects performed an intensive strength training program with initial load of 60% RM, which was carried out on alternate days. Measurement of skin fold thickness, arm circumference, one repetition maximum (1RM) strength on the upper limb and the electormyographic activity of biceps were recorded before and after the period of consumption of LJ100®.

A double blind study on 7 controls was conducted (100 mg lactose) simultaneously. Fat free mass increased from 52.3 (7.1) to 54.4 (7.4) kg (p<0.05). The percentage of fat decreased significantly from 31.3 (5.5) to 28.4 (6.4) % (p<0.05). The arm circumferences of the participants were observed to increase from 30.9 (1.9) to 32.7 (2.0) cm (p < 0.05). The 1RM muscle strength test showed an increment from 73.7 (16.6) to 78.7 (17.0) kg (p < 0.05). The mean frequency of sEMG on bicep muscle contraction of the subjects showed a more significant improvement in strength (p<0.05) compared with the controls (p>0.05). This shows that when Eurycoma administered together with exercise gave a greater gain in strength. The results suggest that LJ100® standardized extract of Eurycoma longifolia Jack can have an anabolic effect on muscle cells.

Results:

Placebo (100mg/day) LJ100® Eurycoma Extract (100mg/day)
Parameters Pre (mean + SD) Post (mean ± SD)
Pre (mean + SD) Post (mean ± SD)
FFM (kg) 52.44 + 3.77 52.77 + 7.18 52.26 + 7.18 54.39 + 7.43*
Fat Mass (%) 22.83 + 2.43 21.33 + 2.35* 31.30 + 5.48 28.44 + 6.43*
1 RM 77.29 + 8.90 79.43 + 8.83 73.71 + 8.90 78.71 + 17.00*
Arm Cir (cm) 29.8 + 3.70 30.7 + 3.86 30.87 + 1.88 32.67 + 1.96*
sEMG (mV) 127.95 + 30.90 98.8 + 50.1 121.77 + 40.0 90.47 + 64.6*

*Results of mean ± SD for pre and post experiment showed significant difference (p<0.05)

The mean frequency of sEMG on bicep muscle contraction f the subjects showed a more significant improvement in strength (p<0.05) compared with the controls (p>0.05). The results suggest that LJ100® has an anabolic effect on muscle cells.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

LJ100® effects on Total Testosterone, DHEA, & SHBG

University of Malaysia, Dr. Ismail Tambe

Conclusions:

Total testosterone levels do not show LJ100® does not disrupt steroidogensis. This suggests the feedback system is activated to ensure the testosterone levels are within the individuals needs range. (This confirms that LJ100® is not a steroid that will result in the unhealthy side effects of steroidal use.)

Analysis of DHEA showed gradual increase in the level from 26% after 1 week to 47% after 3 weeks (using 100mg dose). This suggests that the extract may influence the DHEA production, which would in turn subsequently be aromatized to testosterone.

SHBG (Sex Hormone Binding Globulan) analysis showed that levels were reduced in 36% of the cases after one week. The reduction went up to 66% after 3 weeks. This suggests that the extract could have an effect on the production of SHBG. (Reduction in SHBG indicates less protein to bind with androgen and therefore more free androgen for use by organs. A reduction will also reduce fat production.)


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Saliva Testosterone Test of 9 Individuals 26-52 years of Age

¢Dosage 2x2(50mg/capsules) morning & evening for 10 days

¢Normal range for athlete 800 = 150ng/dl of blood



Volunteer age pre treatment after treatment %

ng/dl blood ng/dl blood Increase

1 26 860 = 30 1,650 = 50 91.86%

2 28 580 = 30 985 = 35 69.83%

3 35 875 = 40 1, 576 = 60 80.11%

4 24 950 = 45 2,210 = 55 132.63%

5 29 755 = 30 1,345 = 35 78.15%



6 48 650 = 20 875 = 30 34.62%

7 52 450 = 25 765 = 35 70.00%

8 50 585 = 25 875 = 35 49.57%

9 42 350 = 30 480 = 35 37.14%



Data – preliminary data - more work to be carried out

Volunteers 1-5 are athletes - data are an average of 3 different studies at different times

Volunteers 6-9 do not exercise on a regular basis




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Effects of E. longifolia on animal testosterone


Animal
Increase %

Mice
479%

Rat
380%

Rabbit
320%

*Human testicular homogenate ( in vitro)


440%


J.M Saad et al 1995






--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Effect of LJ100® E.longifolia extract on the levels of cAMP and cGMP of rabbit corpus cavernosa.

In this study, the mechanism of action of LJ100® Eurycoma longifolia extract on penile erection was assessed by determining the in vitro formation of cGMP and cAMP in rabbit corpus carvenosum. The effect of E. longifolia was then compared with the effectiveness of sildenafil citrate (viagra) in triggering penile erection. Corpus cavernosum tissues were treated with LJ100® E.longifolia extract and sildenafil citrate at different concentrations and incubation time. This was done by incubating the rabbit tissues in Dulbelco’s Minimum Essential Medium (MEM) containing various concentration of extract (0, 1.25, 1.875, 2.5, 3.125 and 3.75 µg/ml) and then measuring the cGMP and cAMP level using an enzyme-linked immunoassay (EIA) kit. Prior to this, the optimum concentration of sodium nitroprusside (SNP) as a stimulus for nitric oxide formation and guanylate cyclase activated, were determined.

Significant findings


1. LJ100® E.longifolia extract increased the level of cGMP in rabbit corpus cavernosum to almost 4-fold.



In the presence of SNP (10 µm) LJ100® E. longifolia extract increased cGMP in rabbit corpus cavernosum with increasing concentrations (1.25 – 3.125 µg/ml). The effective concentration of LJ100® E.longifolia extract is 3.125 µg/ml at 30 minutes incubation. The increase was greatest (5.298pM/mg tissue) compared to control (1.2pM/mg tissue), representing a 4-fold increase. For comparison, a similar study was also carried out using sildenafil citrate, an anti-impotency pill known to act via elevation of cGMP. Sildenafil citrate increases cGMP in rabbit corpus cavernosum with increasing concentrations (10-7-10-4M) in response to SNP (10µM). The effective concentration of sildenafil citrate is 10-4M which increases cGMP up 4.832pM/mg tissue compared to control (0.8pM/mg tissue). The erectogenic effect of sildenafil citrate is mediated by specific enhancement of cGMP accumulation in the corpus cavernosum, consistent with the known activity of sildenafil as a potent and selective inhibitor of cGMP-phosphodiesterase 5 (cGMP-PDE5). The result from preliminary study shows that the mechanism of action of LJ100® E.longifolia extract is similar to sildenafil citrate.



2. LJ100® E.longifolia extract enhances the level of cAMP in rabbit corpus cavernosum; a phenomenon not observed with Viagra.



Effect of sildenafil citrate with concenration 10-4M, 10-5M, 10-6M and 10-7M on cAMP levels also was studied in this research. From the results, LJ100® E.longifolia extract was found to increase cAMP levels in corpus cavernosum and there were no significant increases of cAMP levels in the corpus cavernosum tissue treated with Viagra.



Results of this study validate the physiological observations of the aphrodisiac properties of E.longifolia whereby LJ100® E.longifolia extract is found to increase and enhance the levels of cGMP and cAMP on a time and concentration dependent manner in the rabbit corpus cavernosa tissue, even in the absence of sexual stimuli. The increase in both second messengers indicates smooth muscle relaxation and this can be extrapolated to a penile erection in a in vivo.
 
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