The Gainskeeper Formula 2K2+

[Immortal Juicer]

I want to try this again because the first time I fucked up royally and included outdated profiles that contradicted my theory. There was also alot of reading included that probably turned people away.

Strength loss, depression, and limp dick do not appeal to me whatsoever. Thats why I want to put together the best way to come off and minimize all the shit.

I want to establish what is the best way possible to come off a cycle, maintain gains, minimize negative effects, and promote HPTA recovery.

I'm not saying this is right, its what I think and its a start thats been revised once by adding the DHEA and will hopefully be revised until we can get it right. So please dont give any criticism without offering an explanation of an alternative you believe is an improvement.

BTW, one time hearing a hot ass, butt naked, big tittied chick in my room say "is something wrong," and instantly I had a burning passion for the pharmacology and mechanisms of HPTA supression and recovery!

 

[bigpoppapete]

Jesus Fucking Christ man, what the fuck are U asking 4.If your doing Sust or Omnadren, Then Clomid 3 Weeks after!n Anything else,Just do Clomid 4 ! month as a Safety net . Just My 2 cents

 

[bigpoppapete]

Sorry but I know clomid Makes people freak,Myself included,What are U doing?

 

[Immortal Juicer]

Jesus Fucking Christ man, what the fuck are U asking 4.If your doing Sust or Omnadren, Then Clomid 3 Weeks after!n Anything else,Just do Clomid 4 ! month as a Safety net . Just My 2 cents

Taking clomid at 50mg eod is not uncommon. It doesnt keep your test production going, but it does serve a cosmetic purpose. Its also cheap and available as hell. $0.35 three times a week is worth the luxury of big balls, to me anyway.

Seems like you better lay off the clomid now if it makes you freak, and try to make a coheret post, complete with punctuation and grammer.

j/k

 

[OVRTrainer]

Couple of things...

1) I would use Nolva throughout the cycle 20mg eod rather than clomid. As Twitched CONSTANTLY reminds us, when using non-aromatizable steroids or enough arimidex to prevent aromatization, you can negatively impact your cholesterol. Nolva acts as an estrogen in the liver and will help to regulate your cholesterol levels. Also I am a big advocate of Bill Llewellyn's theory (based on proven studies) regarding the efficacy of nolva as compared to clomid (20mg N = 150mg C). I don't pay much deference to the "sacrificing gains" argument due to nolva lowering IGF-1 levels.

2) Keeping #1 in mind, I would opt for Nolva over Clomid to use in conjunction with HCG both during and post cycle. Proven to be a more effective estrogen agonist.

3) If you're truly coming "off" then you should REALLY come off! In which case I don't see the purpose of using primo @ 200mg a week. It's been proven to be enough to suppress the hpta. In my opinion, if your not concerned with natural test suppression then it's fine, though you might as well begin your next cycle. Which brings me to my next point...

4) I believe that the most fool proof method (maybe overkill) of coming off, and kicking natural test production into effect is to run HCG/nolva post cycle and follow that with clomid for 3-4wks. Of course the timing depends on what kind of test your using (length of ester).

5) The main ingredient in ZMA is zinc which gets depleted by strenuous activity. If you need it post-cycle you might as well use it throughout. It won't have an effect on LH levels while "on" however it still has it's benefits.

6) DHEA...I don't think it's necessary but whatever. And I would substitute Tribestan for FUZU as I think it's a superior product. Either way, neither product will do much more than provide the "viagra effect". They will NOT stimulate natural test production.

7) I agree with your clen break-up.

8) I also agree with your arimidex/liquidex dosing as I would run it from beginning to end as well...perpetually if I could

Well that's all I have to say and I offered explanations as requested!

 

[Immortal Juicer]

Couple of things...

1) I would use Nolva throughout the cycle 20mg eod rather than clomid. As Twitched CONSTANTLY reminds us, when using non-aromatizable steroids or enough arimidex to prevent aromatization, you can negatively impact your cholesterol. Nolva acts as an estrogen in the liver and will help to regulate your cholesterol levels. Also I am a big advocate of Bill Llewellyn's theory (based on proven studies) regarding the efficacy of nolva as compared to clomid (20mg N = 150mg C). I don't pay much deference to the "sacrificing gains" argument due to nolva lowering IGF-1 levels.

2) Keeping #1 in mind, I would opt for Nolva over Clomid to use in conjunction with HCG both during and post cycle. Proven to be a more effective estrogen agonist.

The clomid is just so that you minimize testicular atrophy and have some balls. Its only for cosmetic purposes. Nolva isnt effective at keeping your nuts big as clomid. As far as cholesterol, I dont think the impact would be signifigant and most isnt a big concern considering BBrs diets are usually heathier than the average person and should not be a concern for someone only on for 8 weeks. Besides, if we were really concerned with our health first, we wouldnt cycle anyway.

3) If you're truly coming "off" then you should REALLY come off! In which case I don't see the purpose of using primo @ 200mg a week. It's been proven to be enough to suppress the hpta. In my opinion, if your not concerned with natural test suppression then it's fine, though you might as well begin your next cycle. Which brings me to my next point...

True. Many people do bridge though so I included the bridge so they know when to start. If you dont bridge and truly come off, then the primo doest apply, but the recovery program does.

4) I believe that the most fool proof method (maybe overkill) of coming off, and kicking natural test production into effect is to run HCG/nolva post cycle and follow that with clomid for 3-4wks. Of course the timing depends on what kind of test your using (length of ester).

Using nolvadex with HCG was only necessary prior to arimidex. Now that arimidex is available, Nolvadex is pretty much going away. I've got the HCG halfway though to send a false LH signal, and prior to clomid to "warm up" the balls for the real LH on the way and make them more responsive.

5) The main ingredient in ZMA is zinc which gets depleted by strenuous activity. If you need it post-cycle you might as well use it throughout. It won't have an effect on LH levels while "on" however it still has it's benefits.

I was assuming everyone was taking a good multivitamin/efa formula daily. If someone doesnt realize the importance of that, they wont realize the importance of HPTA recovery either.

6) DHEA...I don't think it's necessary but whatever. And I would substitute Tribestan for FUZU as I think it's a superior product. Either way, neither product will do much more than provide the "viagra effect". They will NOT stimulate natural test production.

I dont want to recommed any brand of trib and start a fight, just go with one you prefer.

Thanks for the great feedback. I agree that I would be smart to take ZMA throughout just for the health benefit, but I want to concentrate on post cycle weeks, and the drug the use of the drugs that have an effect on HPTA during.

What do you think? Am I not understanding the mechanism of the Nolvadex?
Thanks.

 

[G ChildlihC G]

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