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Hi guys,
This is my first post here, which might come out a little more sceptical than an average first post on a forum with immensely knowable people of whom I’ve learned a lot. Personally I work as an analyst, which means I like to see proofs rather than claims. If I see someone claim something I like to get to the bottom of what it’s based on, what are the live examples backing up the theory and for those that can back up the theory; to which degree is it true and how big of a problem is it reasonable to expect, and what doses and length of use causes problems. For example; I have read one example of a guy reporting “hairloss like a cancer patient” on Equipoise. Does that mean this is what you can expect; no. AAS and hairloss is all about calculated risk and how you will react is individual. Of course if you are prone to MPB (Male Patterned Baldness) the risk is higher but still a calculated risk.
Another example is Masteron. It’s a DHT preparate, but from user reports it does not seem to be close to the worst choices. Winstrol on the other hand appear to be playing with fire for men with MPB if they care about keeping their hair.
That was the general part. Feel free to correct me and being a newbie flaming is more than welcome as long as you have some reasonable arguments behind it and not basing it on the (in my opinion) undocumented theories I’ll get back to below.
I’ll start with a little background information about some products and my situation before coming to the real issue; hairloss and aas.
Over the last couple months I’ve read pretty much all I can get over about aas and hairloss. Over the last two years I’ve been on Proscar (Finasteride) 1.25mg/d. In addition I use minoxidil twize daily and Nizoral 2% shampoo twice a week.
Research shows that 48% of mens hearloss stops (or is reduced by Proscar) and a further 42% also get regrowth of hair that has been lost. I’m amongst those who has seen hairloss stop and seen regrowth. For those who knows hairloss categories I used to be a NW5v (NW=Northwood scale). A year back I also had a hairtransplant so now I look more like a NW2/NW3.
Even though half life of proscar is only 6-8 hours research show limited extra benefit of taking it more often, and also basically no difference in taking 0.2mg daily and 1.25mg daily. The reason why most people take 1.25mg is that the cheapest version comes in 5mg pills that are easy to split in four and the sideeffects are limitied (for most people) in that dosage. Taking too much isn’t a good idea as this is cancer medicine (in 5mg dosage) so heavy stuff. However, taking Proscar at 1.25mg will in general give you about 7 years with increased/stabile hair plus 7-14 years where it will gradually lose effect, though a slower pace that without. So basically you buy yourself about 20 years of better hair.
It’s never been proven how minoxidil helps heargrowth, but it does help and for some reason it’s even better when it’s combined with proscar. It’s not a DHT blocker, so it could also help for hairgrowth using DHT AAS. That’s just my theory though.
Nizoral shampoo does absolutely nothing to increase heargrowth, but eases the scalp making improving the conditions for the area where the hair grow (English isn’t my native language but hope that makes sense in a way).
If you haven’t figured out yet,, hair is quite important to me.
When it comes to AAS and hairloss it is very difficult to distinguish between actual facts that a number of people have experienced and what is just parrot talk. Just because it’s repeated many times doesn’t necessary make it true. For example, I’ve found most post on the deca/finasteride (Proscar) issue to be plain copy/paste from a post written in 2001 in this very forum. I’ll get back to that.
Currently I am on 30mg dianabol (3weeks), 500mg Testo E (12 weeks) and 300mg Deca (10weeks). I have some Masteron that might use in week 9-12 but am undecided on that. I’m 195lbs, the rest of my stats are irrelevant for this issue.
If everything were black and white you would make a big question mark as to how I could dare taking Dbol worrying about my hair. Well, as far as my findings go the sideeffects from Dbol only start to kick in at longer usage or longer term use and for doses above 30mg/d. I haven’t seen much proof of MPB on such dose and timespam. Proscar has absolutely no effect on Dbol but that’s fair enough for such a short period. It’s a calculated risk that I’m aware of but based on what I have been able to find I’m willing to take that risk
Second product is Testo E. Testo combined with Proscar is also seen as one of the safer routs to go. Not the safest, but one of the safer and as Testo should be part of basically any bulk it’s difficult to get around it. With Testo E half life about 10days I will have on average 2g of testo in the system (500mg=250mg after 10 days 125mg after 20 days62.5mg after 30 days and so on for each dose)
Now to the big question; deca and proscar. If you stop using proscar, you will start losing your extra gained hair after 3-6 months. Ok, so why not stop using proscar while on deca than restart again afterwards, sounds obvious, right? Well not really, as the reason why the hair won’t fall off immediately is because the proscar is still active for some period. Deca is by itself safe for the hair as it turns to DHN and not DHT. But with the proscar/dht blocker in our system how big is the difference really? As deca half life is 14 days I’ll have an average of 1g deca in my system with 300mg/w. Obviously you can’t measure different medicine gram per gram but we are talking 1000 times as much deca in your system as proscar when the amount of proscar is at it’s maximum.
I’m not a doctor, but for me it seems strange that the small dosage you have of proscar in your body by a 1.25mg dosage can really transform deca from one of the good guys (turning to DHN) to the ultimate badboy by turning all to DHT. Also, the proscar has positive effect on the Testo making the net effect even more complicated.
So the bottom line as I see it is that proscar helps for Testo E. In theory Deca/Proscar is a bad mix but for one, I can’t really see how it helps stopping to use it helps, and last I haven’t managed to find many users actually document that they have had bad reactions on it. I’ve seen a few, yes –but far from the extent on other products.
I’m really eager to hear what you guys think of this, or if there is some big flaw in my theory or something I’ve missed. As proscar is good for testo, and to a (small or large) degree bad for deca I find it difficult to see if it’s net positive or negative. Deca/proscar is bad but how bad and where are all the live horrible cases proving this theory?!?
This is my first post here, which might come out a little more sceptical than an average first post on a forum with immensely knowable people of whom I’ve learned a lot. Personally I work as an analyst, which means I like to see proofs rather than claims. If I see someone claim something I like to get to the bottom of what it’s based on, what are the live examples backing up the theory and for those that can back up the theory; to which degree is it true and how big of a problem is it reasonable to expect, and what doses and length of use causes problems. For example; I have read one example of a guy reporting “hairloss like a cancer patient” on Equipoise. Does that mean this is what you can expect; no. AAS and hairloss is all about calculated risk and how you will react is individual. Of course if you are prone to MPB (Male Patterned Baldness) the risk is higher but still a calculated risk.
Another example is Masteron. It’s a DHT preparate, but from user reports it does not seem to be close to the worst choices. Winstrol on the other hand appear to be playing with fire for men with MPB if they care about keeping their hair.
That was the general part. Feel free to correct me and being a newbie flaming is more than welcome as long as you have some reasonable arguments behind it and not basing it on the (in my opinion) undocumented theories I’ll get back to below.
I’ll start with a little background information about some products and my situation before coming to the real issue; hairloss and aas.
Over the last couple months I’ve read pretty much all I can get over about aas and hairloss. Over the last two years I’ve been on Proscar (Finasteride) 1.25mg/d. In addition I use minoxidil twize daily and Nizoral 2% shampoo twice a week.
Research shows that 48% of mens hearloss stops (or is reduced by Proscar) and a further 42% also get regrowth of hair that has been lost. I’m amongst those who has seen hairloss stop and seen regrowth. For those who knows hairloss categories I used to be a NW5v (NW=Northwood scale). A year back I also had a hairtransplant so now I look more like a NW2/NW3.
Even though half life of proscar is only 6-8 hours research show limited extra benefit of taking it more often, and also basically no difference in taking 0.2mg daily and 1.25mg daily. The reason why most people take 1.25mg is that the cheapest version comes in 5mg pills that are easy to split in four and the sideeffects are limitied (for most people) in that dosage. Taking too much isn’t a good idea as this is cancer medicine (in 5mg dosage) so heavy stuff. However, taking Proscar at 1.25mg will in general give you about 7 years with increased/stabile hair plus 7-14 years where it will gradually lose effect, though a slower pace that without. So basically you buy yourself about 20 years of better hair.
It’s never been proven how minoxidil helps heargrowth, but it does help and for some reason it’s even better when it’s combined with proscar. It’s not a DHT blocker, so it could also help for hairgrowth using DHT AAS. That’s just my theory though.
Nizoral shampoo does absolutely nothing to increase heargrowth, but eases the scalp making improving the conditions for the area where the hair grow (English isn’t my native language but hope that makes sense in a way).
If you haven’t figured out yet,, hair is quite important to me.
When it comes to AAS and hairloss it is very difficult to distinguish between actual facts that a number of people have experienced and what is just parrot talk. Just because it’s repeated many times doesn’t necessary make it true. For example, I’ve found most post on the deca/finasteride (Proscar) issue to be plain copy/paste from a post written in 2001 in this very forum. I’ll get back to that.
Currently I am on 30mg dianabol (3weeks), 500mg Testo E (12 weeks) and 300mg Deca (10weeks). I have some Masteron that might use in week 9-12 but am undecided on that. I’m 195lbs, the rest of my stats are irrelevant for this issue.
If everything were black and white you would make a big question mark as to how I could dare taking Dbol worrying about my hair. Well, as far as my findings go the sideeffects from Dbol only start to kick in at longer usage or longer term use and for doses above 30mg/d. I haven’t seen much proof of MPB on such dose and timespam. Proscar has absolutely no effect on Dbol but that’s fair enough for such a short period. It’s a calculated risk that I’m aware of but based on what I have been able to find I’m willing to take that risk
Second product is Testo E. Testo combined with Proscar is also seen as one of the safer routs to go. Not the safest, but one of the safer and as Testo should be part of basically any bulk it’s difficult to get around it. With Testo E half life about 10days I will have on average 2g of testo in the system (500mg=250mg after 10 days 125mg after 20 days62.5mg after 30 days and so on for each dose)
Now to the big question; deca and proscar. If you stop using proscar, you will start losing your extra gained hair after 3-6 months. Ok, so why not stop using proscar while on deca than restart again afterwards, sounds obvious, right? Well not really, as the reason why the hair won’t fall off immediately is because the proscar is still active for some period. Deca is by itself safe for the hair as it turns to DHN and not DHT. But with the proscar/dht blocker in our system how big is the difference really? As deca half life is 14 days I’ll have an average of 1g deca in my system with 300mg/w. Obviously you can’t measure different medicine gram per gram but we are talking 1000 times as much deca in your system as proscar when the amount of proscar is at it’s maximum.
I’m not a doctor, but for me it seems strange that the small dosage you have of proscar in your body by a 1.25mg dosage can really transform deca from one of the good guys (turning to DHN) to the ultimate badboy by turning all to DHT. Also, the proscar has positive effect on the Testo making the net effect even more complicated.
So the bottom line as I see it is that proscar helps for Testo E. In theory Deca/Proscar is a bad mix but for one, I can’t really see how it helps stopping to use it helps, and last I haven’t managed to find many users actually document that they have had bad reactions on it. I’ve seen a few, yes –but far from the extent on other products.
I’m really eager to hear what you guys think of this, or if there is some big flaw in my theory or something I’ve missed. As proscar is good for testo, and to a (small or large) degree bad for deca I find it difficult to see if it’s net positive or negative. Deca/proscar is bad but how bad and where are all the live horrible cases proving this theory?!?
