if i'm clean I've been down to 10x bdw w/ an hour of cardio and lifting a day, w/ refeeds every third day.
when on, i find the cals can be higher and still shed fat. Though less and less am I really not even counting daily cals as much par se... as much as I'm eating according to waht I'm doing. Ex..preworkout I'll eat carbs...postworkout and post hiit i have carbs....all other times the cals are very low w/ no carbs and just the essential fats. I find this is getting me and seems to also be keeping me fuller.