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Creatine ethyl ester vs creatine kre alkalyn
- Thread starter peligroso
- Start date
marshallmadman
New member
Kre Alkalyn is the best choice. I don't care what anyone else says. Chances are, they're trying to sell you CEE
(the addition of the ethyl group to creatine actually reduces acid stability and accelerates its breakdown to creatinine)
(the addition of the ethyl group to creatine actually reduces acid stability and accelerates its breakdown to creatinine)
Last edited:
A
ALIN
Guest
Ive not tried Kre alkalyn,,but Ive always had great results with micronized creatine.
marshallmadman
New member
I agree with alin there. Tried and true.
H
Heath82
Guest
i bought kre-alkalyn because they claimed it is easier on your stomache than others... let me tell you, it gave me the worst, most painful shits ever!!! to the point i was waking up an extra 15 min early before work just to shit. the only creatine ive found that i really liked was cell-mass
Francisco d'Anconia
New member
ProLabs is the best stuff out there. I read a study that compared the purity of creatines from the major suppliers in China, Germany, and the United States. Germany, of course, had everyone whooped by a long run with the US and China purity ranges from 40-88% while the Germans came out at 98-99% pure. One of the best manufacturers in Germany is Creapure which is what Prolabs use in their product.
Guardian swore on krealkalyn, and he was huge
the CEE in Amplify02 and Magnesium reacted Creatine in RawMCC
both at www.AGXsports.com
RawMCC only $19.95 when you buy the Strength Stack which is One Amplify02 and 1 RawMCC
http://www.agxsports.com/#STRENGTHSTACK
both at www.AGXsports.com
RawMCC only $19.95 when you buy the Strength Stack which is One Amplify02 and 1 RawMCC
http://www.agxsports.com/#STRENGTHSTACK
Francisco d'Anconia
New member
Table of results:
Dicyandiamide Creatinine Dyhydrotriazine Sodium
German Producer < 20 ppm < 50 ppm n.d. 20 ppm
Chinese Producer #1 18000ppm 100ppm n.d. n.d.
Chinese Producer #2 2300ppm 1500ppm n.d. n.d.
USA Producer #1 300ppm 2500ppm 90ppm 500ppm
USA Producer #2 400ppm 190ppm 410ppm 295ppm
USA distributor #1 120ppm 220ppm 60ppm 493ppm
USA Distributor #2 80ppm 1480ppm 30ppm n.d.
USA Distributor #3 250ppm 400ppm 80ppm n.d.
USA Distributor #4 30ppm 70ppm 300ppm n.d.
USA Distributor #5 n.d. 200ppm n.d. n.d.
USA Distributor #6 40ppm 800ppm 180ppm n.d.
USA Distributor #7 30ppm 400ppm 120ppm n.d.
USA Distributor #8 120ppm 350ppm 20ppm 478ppm
USA Distributor #9 30ppm 90ppm n.d. n.d.
USA Distributor #10 30ppm 100ppm n.d. n.d.
GB Distributor #1 < 20ppm 80ppm 30ppm n.d.
GB Distributor #2 80ppm 210ppm 160ppm n.d.
GB Distributor #3 < 20ppm 90ppm n.d. n.d.
GB Distributor #4 2600ppm 100ppm n.d. n.d.
GB Distributor #5 4700ppm 7700ppm 60ppm n.d.
GB Distributor #6 60ppm 320ppm 60ppm n.d.
GB Distributor #7 7700ppm 2900ppm 120ppm n.d.
GB Distributor #8 20ppm 80ppm n.d. n.d.
GB Distributor #9 20ppm 100ppm n.d. n.d.
GB Distributor #10 9000ppm < 50ppm 40ppm n.d.
GB Distributor #11 600ppm < 50ppm 20ppm n.d.
German Distributor 50ppm 100ppm n.d. n.d.
Spanish Distributor 30ppm 200ppm n.d. n.d.
The Chemicals
Dicyandiamide (DC): DC is actually a derivative of one of the starting chemicals (cyanamide) used in creatine production. DC is formed during the production of creatine products, and large amounts found in a product are considered the result of an incomplete or inefficient process. A quality creatine product will contain very small amounts, less than 20-50ppm. At this time, DC does not appear to be a particularly toxic chemical. Oral studies with animals (rats and dogs) lasting up to 90 days have not shown serious toxicity or carcinogenic effects, and acute poisoning also takes very high amounts. DC appears to have many uses in the chemical industry. Some of the more interesting is the use of DC in the production of fertilizers, explosives, fire proofing compounds, cleaning compounds, soldering compounds, stabilizer in detergents, modifier for starch products, and a catalyst for epoxy resins.
At the concentrations found in some of the creatine products (see below), it's a good thing this stuff does not appear to be particularly toxic. However, as far as I am concerned, I don't want to be eating the stuff. One interesting point as it relates to DC and toxicity is, if one looks at the safety sheet on the stuff it states that DC breaks down into hydrogen cyanide gas when exposed to a strong acid. Hydrogen cyanide gas is very toxic and has been used as a chemical warfare agent! As Bruce Kneller points out (see side bar), stomach acid, which has a PH of 2, is a very strong acid. Is even a tiny amount of hydrogen cyanide gas produced from the intake of large amounts of DC? The chemist I spoke to did not seem to think so and the safety data with animals would tend to support this, but who knows. Bruce might be overreacting a bit on this, but it's better to lean on the cautious side with such things. Bottom line, it's best not to be eating large amounts of DC in this writer's opinion.
Dihydrotriazine (DT): DT appears to be the real mystery chemical as far as potentially toxic contaminants found in some creatine products. One company had it listed as "...Dihydrotriazine is often found in various creatine products. This substance is a byproduct of non-optimized creatine productions and consequently widely spread over creatine products. Dihydrotriazine is a compound with unknown pharmaceutical and toxicological properties." It was virtually impossible to find any useful safety data on this chemical.
However, DT is part of a large family of chemicals known as the "triazines." It is an organic base with many derivatives. Some of these derivatives are toxic while others are known to be non-toxic, so it is very difficult to come to any real solid opinion regarding the potential toxicity of this chemical. One chemist I spoke to from a major pharmaceutical supply company said to me on the phone "it's safe to say that there will be major differences in toxicity between derivatives since 'triazine' simply means possessing three C=N-H groups. Some derivatives are highly toxic."
Bill Roberts, a medicinal Chemist and writer for Dan Duchaine's Dirty Dieting news letter commented after I sent him over this information: "There really is no way to say just how high a chronic intake of this chemical [these chemicals] is safe in humans from the information given. If the amounts were very small, say a few milligrams per week, it's a reasonable guess that there would probably be no problem.
But if a creatine brand has say 1% of this impurity [these impurities] then people are going to be consuming thousands of milligrams of this compound [these compounds] over time. I think we have to be concerned about taking so much of something that really isn't well studied in humans for safety. It would certainly be unwise to assume that toxicity is not an issue. If the consumer has a choice between a creatine brand that contains this impurity [these impurities] in significant amounts, and one that is more pure, I'd certainly recommend spending the extra money and obtaining the purer product."
So as you can see, we are left with a major question mark regarding DT. For me, the less I know about a chemical the less of it I want to find in any product I am ingesting. Though this chemical might turn out to be perfectly harmless, I think it should not be found in any amount and thus should be non-detectable (n.d.) in the ppm range until we know more about this chemical. As you can see from the tests, some companies have n.d. amounts while others have far more than that. I find this unacceptable, and so should you.
Creatinine: Creatinine is one of the easy compounds to discuss on this list. Creatinine is actually a natural byproduct of creatine metabolism in the human body and of creatine production. A small amount can be found in every creatine product. However, in some products large amounts can be found, as high as 7700 ppm in one case (see table). It is probably safe to say that the ingestion of creatinine is a safe endeavor. There is some research that links the ingestion of creatinine from meats with increased colon cancer incidence, but in all honesty I would not put much stock in that or get all worked up about it . The point is, when I buy creatine I want to eat creatine, not creatinine. Though a natural byproduct of creatine metabolism, it does not have any ergogenic effects and therefore I don't want large amounts of it in my creatine, period. A high quality creatine product should contain less than 100ppm of creatinine in my opinion.
Sodium: Like the aforementioned creatinine, sodium is an easy one to talk about. Also, like creatinine, it is a generally safe thing to ingest at normal intakes. At the levels found in these creatine products, the amount of sodium added to the diet is very small and should pose no problems, even to the most sodium phobic person. However, like I said before, when I pay for creatine I want creatine, not sodium. The lowest sodium content was 20ppm and the highest was 500ppm. I leave it to the reader to decide what is a tolerable sodium content to them.
Conclusion
Believe it or not, the company who did the testing told me that although those were the main chemicals they tested for, some creatine products read like a who's who of different chemical compounds, though they admitted that they are usually found in trace amounts. As for the consumer, if it were me, I would demand the HPLC test results from whom ever I was buying my creatine from regarding the chemicals listed in this article. If you don't care, that's OK also. As for me, I will make sure my creatine comes only from companies and distributors who sell creatine made by the large German company, or other companies, who clearly have their collective act together when it comes to producing an ultra pure creatine product. Bottom line? The expression "creatine is creatine" no longer holds true. However, a high quality creatine product it still the best thing going in bodybuilding/sports supplements.
Dicyandiamide Creatinine Dyhydrotriazine Sodium
German Producer < 20 ppm < 50 ppm n.d. 20 ppm
Chinese Producer #1 18000ppm 100ppm n.d. n.d.
Chinese Producer #2 2300ppm 1500ppm n.d. n.d.
USA Producer #1 300ppm 2500ppm 90ppm 500ppm
USA Producer #2 400ppm 190ppm 410ppm 295ppm
USA distributor #1 120ppm 220ppm 60ppm 493ppm
USA Distributor #2 80ppm 1480ppm 30ppm n.d.
USA Distributor #3 250ppm 400ppm 80ppm n.d.
USA Distributor #4 30ppm 70ppm 300ppm n.d.
USA Distributor #5 n.d. 200ppm n.d. n.d.
USA Distributor #6 40ppm 800ppm 180ppm n.d.
USA Distributor #7 30ppm 400ppm 120ppm n.d.
USA Distributor #8 120ppm 350ppm 20ppm 478ppm
USA Distributor #9 30ppm 90ppm n.d. n.d.
USA Distributor #10 30ppm 100ppm n.d. n.d.
GB Distributor #1 < 20ppm 80ppm 30ppm n.d.
GB Distributor #2 80ppm 210ppm 160ppm n.d.
GB Distributor #3 < 20ppm 90ppm n.d. n.d.
GB Distributor #4 2600ppm 100ppm n.d. n.d.
GB Distributor #5 4700ppm 7700ppm 60ppm n.d.
GB Distributor #6 60ppm 320ppm 60ppm n.d.
GB Distributor #7 7700ppm 2900ppm 120ppm n.d.
GB Distributor #8 20ppm 80ppm n.d. n.d.
GB Distributor #9 20ppm 100ppm n.d. n.d.
GB Distributor #10 9000ppm < 50ppm 40ppm n.d.
GB Distributor #11 600ppm < 50ppm 20ppm n.d.
German Distributor 50ppm 100ppm n.d. n.d.
Spanish Distributor 30ppm 200ppm n.d. n.d.
The Chemicals
Dicyandiamide (DC): DC is actually a derivative of one of the starting chemicals (cyanamide) used in creatine production. DC is formed during the production of creatine products, and large amounts found in a product are considered the result of an incomplete or inefficient process. A quality creatine product will contain very small amounts, less than 20-50ppm. At this time, DC does not appear to be a particularly toxic chemical. Oral studies with animals (rats and dogs) lasting up to 90 days have not shown serious toxicity or carcinogenic effects, and acute poisoning also takes very high amounts. DC appears to have many uses in the chemical industry. Some of the more interesting is the use of DC in the production of fertilizers, explosives, fire proofing compounds, cleaning compounds, soldering compounds, stabilizer in detergents, modifier for starch products, and a catalyst for epoxy resins.
At the concentrations found in some of the creatine products (see below), it's a good thing this stuff does not appear to be particularly toxic. However, as far as I am concerned, I don't want to be eating the stuff. One interesting point as it relates to DC and toxicity is, if one looks at the safety sheet on the stuff it states that DC breaks down into hydrogen cyanide gas when exposed to a strong acid. Hydrogen cyanide gas is very toxic and has been used as a chemical warfare agent! As Bruce Kneller points out (see side bar), stomach acid, which has a PH of 2, is a very strong acid. Is even a tiny amount of hydrogen cyanide gas produced from the intake of large amounts of DC? The chemist I spoke to did not seem to think so and the safety data with animals would tend to support this, but who knows. Bruce might be overreacting a bit on this, but it's better to lean on the cautious side with such things. Bottom line, it's best not to be eating large amounts of DC in this writer's opinion.
Dihydrotriazine (DT): DT appears to be the real mystery chemical as far as potentially toxic contaminants found in some creatine products. One company had it listed as "...Dihydrotriazine is often found in various creatine products. This substance is a byproduct of non-optimized creatine productions and consequently widely spread over creatine products. Dihydrotriazine is a compound with unknown pharmaceutical and toxicological properties." It was virtually impossible to find any useful safety data on this chemical.
However, DT is part of a large family of chemicals known as the "triazines." It is an organic base with many derivatives. Some of these derivatives are toxic while others are known to be non-toxic, so it is very difficult to come to any real solid opinion regarding the potential toxicity of this chemical. One chemist I spoke to from a major pharmaceutical supply company said to me on the phone "it's safe to say that there will be major differences in toxicity between derivatives since 'triazine' simply means possessing three C=N-H groups. Some derivatives are highly toxic."
Bill Roberts, a medicinal Chemist and writer for Dan Duchaine's Dirty Dieting news letter commented after I sent him over this information: "There really is no way to say just how high a chronic intake of this chemical [these chemicals] is safe in humans from the information given. If the amounts were very small, say a few milligrams per week, it's a reasonable guess that there would probably be no problem.
But if a creatine brand has say 1% of this impurity [these impurities] then people are going to be consuming thousands of milligrams of this compound [these compounds] over time. I think we have to be concerned about taking so much of something that really isn't well studied in humans for safety. It would certainly be unwise to assume that toxicity is not an issue. If the consumer has a choice between a creatine brand that contains this impurity [these impurities] in significant amounts, and one that is more pure, I'd certainly recommend spending the extra money and obtaining the purer product."
So as you can see, we are left with a major question mark regarding DT. For me, the less I know about a chemical the less of it I want to find in any product I am ingesting. Though this chemical might turn out to be perfectly harmless, I think it should not be found in any amount and thus should be non-detectable (n.d.) in the ppm range until we know more about this chemical. As you can see from the tests, some companies have n.d. amounts while others have far more than that. I find this unacceptable, and so should you.
Creatinine: Creatinine is one of the easy compounds to discuss on this list. Creatinine is actually a natural byproduct of creatine metabolism in the human body and of creatine production. A small amount can be found in every creatine product. However, in some products large amounts can be found, as high as 7700 ppm in one case (see table). It is probably safe to say that the ingestion of creatinine is a safe endeavor. There is some research that links the ingestion of creatinine from meats with increased colon cancer incidence, but in all honesty I would not put much stock in that or get all worked up about it . The point is, when I buy creatine I want to eat creatine, not creatinine. Though a natural byproduct of creatine metabolism, it does not have any ergogenic effects and therefore I don't want large amounts of it in my creatine, period. A high quality creatine product should contain less than 100ppm of creatinine in my opinion.
Sodium: Like the aforementioned creatinine, sodium is an easy one to talk about. Also, like creatinine, it is a generally safe thing to ingest at normal intakes. At the levels found in these creatine products, the amount of sodium added to the diet is very small and should pose no problems, even to the most sodium phobic person. However, like I said before, when I pay for creatine I want creatine, not sodium. The lowest sodium content was 20ppm and the highest was 500ppm. I leave it to the reader to decide what is a tolerable sodium content to them.
Conclusion
Believe it or not, the company who did the testing told me that although those were the main chemicals they tested for, some creatine products read like a who's who of different chemical compounds, though they admitted that they are usually found in trace amounts. As for the consumer, if it were me, I would demand the HPLC test results from whom ever I was buying my creatine from regarding the chemicals listed in this article. If you don't care, that's OK also. As for me, I will make sure my creatine comes only from companies and distributors who sell creatine made by the large German company, or other companies, who clearly have their collective act together when it comes to producing an ultra pure creatine product. Bottom line? The expression "creatine is creatine" no longer holds true. However, a high quality creatine product it still the best thing going in bodybuilding/sports supplements.
