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I have been using Cell-Tech forever. I am about to begin my next cycle w/ Test and Deca. Should I keep using Creatine or should I save my money? Thanks.
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Creatine any good w/ JUICE?
- Thread starter RBlackwell
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Silent Method
New member
Creatine will work synergistically with steroids. Here's a post Huck often uses to respond to the age old question of creatine and gear:
quote:
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Hey fellas.Just dug up an interesting read out of one of my old Ironman mags.The following excerpts are providided by the notorious Michael Gundill(a.k.a. Dharkam)....Although creatine does have testosterone-like effects,it doesn't act as a steroid hormone.Instead,it's a mediator of some of the androgens' anabolic effects.In fact,steroid users get far more out of their cycles if they take in massive amounts of creatine along with the drugs.Androgens are among the hormones that can force the entry of creatine into muscle cells.While there's a clear relationship between muscle strength gains and increases in muscle creatine stores,unfortunately,the relationship is not as obvious when it comes to increases in muscle mass.Animal-based studies have shown that the muscles of untrained rats take up as much creatine as the muscles of trained rats,but the ANABOLIC effects of creatine are only obvious in trained rats.Therefore,training increases the muscles sensitivity to the anabolic actions of creatine.(Although it's not related to this article,the study also demonstrated that the anabolic effects of creatine are DIRECT,and not mediated by waterretention.In fact,in the 1970s American and Russian studies pointed out a DIRECT anabolic effect of creatine on muscle cells.)Testosterone increases the muscles'sensitivity to the anabolic properties of creatine in addition to enhancing the creatine buildup in muscle fibers.It's also obvious that part of the strength gains people experience while on steroids are mediated by an increase in muscle creatine stores.An interesting discovery A/S users have made is that they should dramatically increase their creatine intake during a cycle to boost the potency of the steroids.Thanks to creatine,people can build more muscle mass with fewer drugs.Anecdotal evidence from A/S users points out that it takes at least 10-15 grams(maintenance)of creatine a day to visibly enhance the the anabolic potency of a steroid stack.There are probably good reasons for the increased creatine requirement when androgen levels are high.As mentioned above,steroids increase the muscle uptake of creatine,and if the muscles are ready to accept more creatine,why not give it to them?I also think that even though steroids enhance creatine synthesis,they may increase creatine degradation as well-so more creatine is used up every day.That could be due to an increase in muscle creatine turnover and also the fact that an elevated muscle protein synthesis rate will likely consume creatine at a faster rate.Other reasons for a higher creatine requirement may be indirect.Because the muscles of drug users are stronger and receive more training,they may waste greater amounts of creatine during training.Once inside the muscle,creatine provides not only an anabolic effect,but also a rapidly mobilized source of fuel.Muscle protein synthesis is a process that wastes great amounts of energy.Anabolism is an ATP-dependent process,which means that it's essential for protein synthesis.If the cellular level of ATP is reduced even a little,IT STOPS ANABOLISM.So even if you can increase the testosterone content of your muscles,nothing will happen if your ATP level is low.Creatine supports anabolism by providing energy to the muscle...Well fellas,it looks like it might be a good idea to stock up on creatine when you're grabbing your protein powder for those bulking cycles,hehheh....Huck
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My mind's not made up on this issue. Here's my reply:
First, let me say that, in general, I respect Huck's opinion more than anybody else on the board. Not only that, the creatine and AAS article posted is well thought out and all points seem quite valid. That being said, here is my reply to said article...
Hucks posted this before. My responce to it the first time I saw it was this: Good post. On the other hand I wonder what effect using creatine durring the cycle has on your natural creatine production, rates of production, capacity for production, capacity for storage? I have a nagging feeling that full blown creatine supplementation durring the cycle may negate some of the positive developments (such as increased natural creatine synthesis and capacity) one might achive without the supplementation.
Hucks responce to that was:
quote:
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Actually all those mechanisms will gradually desensitize over time,irregardless of whether you're on gear or not.Mitochondrial uptake and adaptation down-regulates after a certain period with creatine use.That is why it is always best ran in a cycle pattern(on for a certain period,off for a certain period).
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I felt that this statement helped to illustrate my point. If mitochondrial uptake and adaptation down-regulates after a certain period with creatine supplementation, my fear is that the state of rapid physical/physiological adaptation while on AAS coupled with creatine supplementation may have a negative impact regarding natural creatine production, rates of production, capacity for production, capacity for storage, rates of storage, maybe even creatine uptake while off gear, etc.
I really don't know. (I do think this would make a good experiment to run when I'm a grad student )
Here is another post of mine on the subject: Training will create some positive adaptations regarding your body’s capacity to use creatine (one way you get stronger) and to store it (one way you get bigger). In light of this my mind is not made up on whether creatine supplementation during an AAS cycle is more or less beneficial. On the one hand, if you can suck up more creatine and use it more efficiently why wouldn't you wish to use it? On the other hand, during a period of such rapid physical/physiological adaptation, will the use of supplemental creatine reduce the level of creatine-phosphate system adaptation in regards to the natural (un-supplemented) system?
I don't know. One thing I do know is that supplemental creatine works very well. I use it in two ways. First, I use (in cycles) while off juice. Second, I use it at the very end and during recovery of a steroid cycle.
quote:
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Hey fellas.Just dug up an interesting read out of one of my old Ironman mags.The following excerpts are providided by the notorious Michael Gundill(a.k.a. Dharkam)....Although creatine does have testosterone-like effects,it doesn't act as a steroid hormone.Instead,it's a mediator of some of the androgens' anabolic effects.In fact,steroid users get far more out of their cycles if they take in massive amounts of creatine along with the drugs.Androgens are among the hormones that can force the entry of creatine into muscle cells.While there's a clear relationship between muscle strength gains and increases in muscle creatine stores,unfortunately,the relationship is not as obvious when it comes to increases in muscle mass.Animal-based studies have shown that the muscles of untrained rats take up as much creatine as the muscles of trained rats,but the ANABOLIC effects of creatine are only obvious in trained rats.Therefore,training increases the muscles sensitivity to the anabolic actions of creatine.(Although it's not related to this article,the study also demonstrated that the anabolic effects of creatine are DIRECT,and not mediated by waterretention.In fact,in the 1970s American and Russian studies pointed out a DIRECT anabolic effect of creatine on muscle cells.)Testosterone increases the muscles'sensitivity to the anabolic properties of creatine in addition to enhancing the creatine buildup in muscle fibers.It's also obvious that part of the strength gains people experience while on steroids are mediated by an increase in muscle creatine stores.An interesting discovery A/S users have made is that they should dramatically increase their creatine intake during a cycle to boost the potency of the steroids.Thanks to creatine,people can build more muscle mass with fewer drugs.Anecdotal evidence from A/S users points out that it takes at least 10-15 grams(maintenance)of creatine a day to visibly enhance the the anabolic potency of a steroid stack.There are probably good reasons for the increased creatine requirement when androgen levels are high.As mentioned above,steroids increase the muscle uptake of creatine,and if the muscles are ready to accept more creatine,why not give it to them?I also think that even though steroids enhance creatine synthesis,they may increase creatine degradation as well-so more creatine is used up every day.That could be due to an increase in muscle creatine turnover and also the fact that an elevated muscle protein synthesis rate will likely consume creatine at a faster rate.Other reasons for a higher creatine requirement may be indirect.Because the muscles of drug users are stronger and receive more training,they may waste greater amounts of creatine during training.Once inside the muscle,creatine provides not only an anabolic effect,but also a rapidly mobilized source of fuel.Muscle protein synthesis is a process that wastes great amounts of energy.Anabolism is an ATP-dependent process,which means that it's essential for protein synthesis.If the cellular level of ATP is reduced even a little,IT STOPS ANABOLISM.So even if you can increase the testosterone content of your muscles,nothing will happen if your ATP level is low.Creatine supports anabolism by providing energy to the muscle...Well fellas,it looks like it might be a good idea to stock up on creatine when you're grabbing your protein powder for those bulking cycles,hehheh....Huck
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My mind's not made up on this issue. Here's my reply:
First, let me say that, in general, I respect Huck's opinion more than anybody else on the board. Not only that, the creatine and AAS article posted is well thought out and all points seem quite valid. That being said, here is my reply to said article...
Hucks posted this before. My responce to it the first time I saw it was this: Good post. On the other hand I wonder what effect using creatine durring the cycle has on your natural creatine production, rates of production, capacity for production, capacity for storage? I have a nagging feeling that full blown creatine supplementation durring the cycle may negate some of the positive developments (such as increased natural creatine synthesis and capacity) one might achive without the supplementation.
Hucks responce to that was:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Actually all those mechanisms will gradually desensitize over time,irregardless of whether you're on gear or not.Mitochondrial uptake and adaptation down-regulates after a certain period with creatine use.That is why it is always best ran in a cycle pattern(on for a certain period,off for a certain period).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I felt that this statement helped to illustrate my point. If mitochondrial uptake and adaptation down-regulates after a certain period with creatine supplementation, my fear is that the state of rapid physical/physiological adaptation while on AAS coupled with creatine supplementation may have a negative impact regarding natural creatine production, rates of production, capacity for production, capacity for storage, rates of storage, maybe even creatine uptake while off gear, etc.
I really don't know. (I do think this would make a good experiment to run when I'm a grad student )
Here is another post of mine on the subject: Training will create some positive adaptations regarding your body’s capacity to use creatine (one way you get stronger) and to store it (one way you get bigger). In light of this my mind is not made up on whether creatine supplementation during an AAS cycle is more or less beneficial. On the one hand, if you can suck up more creatine and use it more efficiently why wouldn't you wish to use it? On the other hand, during a period of such rapid physical/physiological adaptation, will the use of supplemental creatine reduce the level of creatine-phosphate system adaptation in regards to the natural (un-supplemented) system?
I don't know. One thing I do know is that supplemental creatine works very well. I use it in two ways. First, I use (in cycles) while off juice. Second, I use it at the very end and during recovery of a steroid cycle.
Silent Method
New member
Having given my standard reply, I must admit that I am going to use creatine on cycle durring this current cycle.
Also, RBlackwell, if you've been using creatine for a long duration it may be good to give it a break for a while. Most prefer to cycle it on and off.
Also, RBlackwell, if you've been using creatine for a long duration it may be good to give it a break for a while. Most prefer to cycle it on and off.
