Best Drink To Pack On Solid Mass

[Nelson Montana]

Still waiting for those references Silent.









Any time you're ready.








I thought so.




Oh, and by the way...how can my theories be both quackery AND stolen from elsewhere? Shouldn't you pick on argument or the other? Oh, I forgot. You're full of shit, aren't you.

Maybe you should just shut the fuck up and stop wasting everyone's time and let those who have actually accomplished something speak without harassment. Okay? Good boy.

 

[Silent Method]

OH YES, IT'S VERY IRONIC! It shows how utterly clueless you, and Silent and jubel and the like are. You offer NOTHING but criticism, but when the tables are turned, you cry "foul."

You're always barking for references and SM has been doing so in a disparaging manner -- as if taking shots at me is somehow acceptable. Well, where's the proof big guy? Where are those studies that you love so much? Since you insist I present references to back up every other sentance I write it's only fair that you present just ONE.

Your a tad slow bud. Why do you get off on your "you insist I present references to back up every other sentance" crybaby bullshit. Are still smarting from being called on your lie or ignorance in your "protein cannot be absorbed without fat" post. Why can you not muster the stuff to go back to it and produce an argument?

Newsflash - I was looking for support for your claims in ANY form. Fuck references - you gave NOTHING. No argument, no description of your reasoning - NOTHING.

And poantrex, I realize you're a little dense but read slowly. I never said suger doesn't raise insulin. You're apparently too dim to understand my original question. I asked for the proof that a post workout high GI shake has been proven to build more muscle.

Nelson, you're apparently too dim to understand the implications of what poantrex had written. He didn't imply that you said that sugar doesn't raise insulin. But he did just prove, through your response to him, that you are clueless on this subject.

 

[Silent Method]

Still waiting for those references Silent.









Any time you're ready.








I thought so.




Oh, and by the way...how can my theories be both quackery AND stolen from elsewhere? Shouldn't you pick on argument or the other? Oh, I forgot. You're full of shit, aren't you.

Maybe you should just shut the fuck up and stop wasting everyone's time and let those who have actually accomplished something speak without harassment. Okay? Good boy.

It's a shame you cannot conduct yourself in a civil manner. Your logic and reasoning is pathetic. This post (and many of your others like it) is a blatant dodge.


Address the points I made in argument for my stance on post-exercise nutrition Nelson. Stop backing away.

 

[jubei]

Wow, I actually agree with Nelson. I direct you to his post on page 1 as I really have nothing further to say, except that the protien does not have to be from PF.

 

[poantrex]

.

 

[poantrex]

]First study. Demonstrates the depletion of glycogen during heavy resistance exercise:

Glycogen and triglyceride utilization in relation to muscle metabolic characteristics in men performing heavy-resistance exercise.

Essen-Gustavsson B, Tesch PA.

Swedish University of Agricultural Sciences, Faculty of Veterinary Medicine, Department of Medicine and Surgery, Uppsala.

Nine bodybuilders performed heavy-resistance exercise activating the quadriceps femoris muscle. Intermittent 30-s exhaustive exercise bouts comprising 6-12 repetitions were interspersed with 60-s periods for 30 min. Venous blood samples were taken repeatedly during and after exercise for analyses of plasma free fatty acid (FFA) and glycerol concentration. Muscle biopsies were obtained from the vastus lateralis muscle before and after exercise and assayed for glycogen, glycerol-3-phosphate, lactate and triglyceride (TG) content. The activities of citrate synthase (CS), lactate dehydrogenase, hexokinase (HK), myokinase, creatine kinase and 3-hydroxyacyl-CoA dehydrogenase (HAD), were analysed. Histochemical staining procedures were used to assess fibre type composition, fibre area and capillary density. TG content before and after exercise averaged (SD) 23.9 (13.3) and 16.7 (6.4) mmol kg-1 dry wt. The basal triglyceride content varied sixfold among individuals and the higher the levels the greater was the change during exercise. The glycogen content decreased (P less than 0.001) from 690 (82) to 495 (95) mmol kg-1 dry wt. and lactate and glycerol-3-phosphate increased (P less than 0.001) to 79.5 (5.5) and 14.5 (7.3) mmol kg-1 dry wt., respectively, after exercise. The HK and HAD/CS content respectively correlated with glycogen or TG content at rest and with changes in these metabolites during exercise. FFA and glycerol concentrations increased slightly (P less than 0.001) during exercise. Lipolysis may, therefore, provide energy during heavy-resistance exercise of relatively short duration. Also, storage and utilization of intramuscular substrates appear to be influenced by the metabolic profile of muscle.

PMID: 2289498 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

]This study is to simply demonstrate that high GI drinks will replinish Glycogen storage faster (obviously) than other drinks.

1: J Appl Physiol. 1993 Aug;75(2):1019-23. Related Articles, Links


Muscle glycogen storage after prolonged exercise: effect of the glycemic index of carbohydrate feedings.

Burke LM, Collier GR, Hargreaves M.

Department of Sports Medicine, Australian Institute of Sport, Australian Capital Territory.

The effect of the glycemic index (GI) of postexercise carbohydrate intake on muscle glycogen storage was investigated. Five well-trained cyclists undertook an exercise trial to deplete muscle glycogen (2 h at 75% of maximal O2 uptake followed by four 30-s sprints) on two occasions, 1 wk apart. For 24 h after each trial, subjects rested and consumed a diet composed exclusively of high-carbohydrate foods, with one trial providing foods with a high GI (HI GI) and the other providing foods with a low GI (LO GI). Total carbohydrate intake over the 24 h was 10 g/kg of body mass, evenly distributed between meals eaten 0, 4, 8, and 21 h postexercise. Blood samples were drawn before exercise, immediately after exercise, immediately before each meal, and 30, 60, and 90 min post-prandially. Muscle biopsies were taken from the vastus lateralis immediately after exercise and after 24 h. When the effects of the immediate postexercise meal were excluded, the totals of the incremental glucose and insulin areas after each meal were greater (P < or = 0.05) for the HI GI meals than for the LO GI meals. The increase in muscle glycogen content after 24 h of recovery was greater (P = 0.02) with the HI GI diet (106 +/- 11.7 mmol/kg wet wt) than with the LO GI diet (71.5 +/- 6.5 mmol/kg). The results suggest that the most rapid increase in muscle glycogen content during the first 24 h of recovery is achieved by consuming foods with a high GI.

PMID: 8226443 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

 

[Silent Method]

poantrex, don't worry about posting study abstracts. Each fact I listed in post 39 of this thread has multiple studies to back it up:

*Exercise elicits a catecholamine response.
*Catecholamines elicit a catabolic response.
*Intense bouts of exercise elicit a catabolic response.
*Carbohydrate elicits an insulin response.
*Insulin elicits an anabolic/anti-catabolic response.
*High GI carbohydrate elicits a greater insulin response more rapidly than low GI carbohydrate.
*High GI carbohydrate consumed post-exercise elicits a greater, more rapid anabolic/anti-catabolic effect than low GI carbohydrate.

These are literally text book exercise physiology concepts. Could they be wrong? Of course - text book are revised all the time. (It wasn't very long ago when high GI carbs were not recognized to have any significant advantage for recovery after anaerobic exercise - the anabolic response was completely ignored.)

Are they wrong? Not likely. But if they are I'd sure as hell like to know.

If anybody is capable of forming a rational argument to refute any of these points, I'm all ears.






jubei, aside from the fact that high GI carbohydrates are handled very differently by the body differently following exercise (look up exercise response and it's effects on glycogen synthase and hexokinase, as well as post-exercise insulin response) I agree with Nelson's first post.

Looking for "weight gainer" shakes silly (refer to my first post in this thread). You want to pack on mass, food and calories are where it's at. However, as post-exercise recovery/anabolism stimulatory drinks some of the so called "mass gainer" shakes are quite functionable.







smb_69, sorry I missed your question. I don't know if adding Glucorell-R would offer any real advantage. In a "normal" post-exercise athlete model, the straight carbohydrate and protein works regardless.

 

[Nelson Montana]

poantrex, don't worry about posting study abstracts. Each fact I listed in post 39 of this thread has multiple studies to back it up:

*Exercise elicits a catecholamine response.
*Catecholamines elicit a catabolic response.
*Intense bouts of exercise elicit a catabolic response.
*Carbohydrate elicits an insulin response.
*Insulin elicits an anabolic/anti-catabolic response.
*High GI carbohydrate elicits a greater insulin response more rapidly than low GI carbohydrate.
*High GI carbohydrate consumed post-exercise elicits a greater, more rapid anabolic/anti-catabolic effect than low GI carbohydrate.

These are literally text book exercise physiology concepts. Could they be wrong? Of course - text book are revised all the time. (It wasn't very long ago when high GI carbs were not recognized to have any significant advantage for recovery after anaerobic exercise - the anabolic response was completely ignored.)

Are they wrong? Not likely. But if they are I'd sure as hell like to know.

If anybody is capable of forming a rational argument to refute any of these points, I'm all ears.






jubei, aside from the fact that high GI carbohydrates are handled very differently by the body differently following exercise (look up exercise response and it's effects on glycogen synthase and hexokinase, as well as post-exercise insulin response) I agree with Nelson's first post.

Looking for "weight gainer" shakes silly (refer to my first post in this thread). You want to pack on mass, food and calories are where it's at. However, as post-exercise recovery/anabolism stimulatory drinks some of the so called "mass gainer" shakes are quite functionable.




Blah, blah, blah....

REFERENCES PLEASE.



Ah, never mind. I know you don't have them, because they don't exist. (Poentrex did exactly what I knew he would do--post a study on glycogen replenishment. As I said -- he's a little slow).

 

[Silent Method]

"REFERENCES PLEASE.

Ah, never mind. I know you don't have them, because they don't exist."

This is the kind of comment that leads me to believe that your "work" is based on paraphrasing the little you have read and agree with. You obviously have no background with research and exercise physiology.



Your squirming Nelson. Why will you not address the facts. Put forth some argument and face the issue head on..

 

[Nelson Montana]

"REFERENCES PLEASE.

Ah, never mind. I know you don't have them, because they don't exist."

This is the kind of comment that leads me to believe that your "work" is based on paraphrasing the little you have read and agree with. You obviously have no background with research and exercise physiology.



Your squirming Nelson. Why will you not address the facts. Put forth some argument and face the issue head on..

Wow, your responses are getting lamer with each post. I'm squirming? Over what? I made my point and now I'm simply asking you for the same thing you ask me -- and you got nothing.

Trying to divert the attention on you by attacking me? That's the best you got? Pathetic.

I have no background in exercise phisiology? Well, I am a accredited PT with hundreds of pusblished works, 30 years of experience and the endorsement of some of the most presdigious people in the field.

Maybe you think that's bullshit so why don't you tell everyone YOUR credentials so we can all see what a real expert you are.

Let it go SM. Admit you're just an message board pain in the ass and move on.