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For all u guys obsessed with Gyno!! Check This Out!


Welcome to the EliteFitness.com Bodybuilding Site! Please join this discussion about For all u guys obsessed with Gyno!! Check This Out! within the Anabolic Steroids category.

Excerpt: You may significantly be able to reduce the chances of getting gynecomastia, "bitch's tits," with a simple, inexpensive, legal supplementation—zinc. Here's the evidence. First some background. BALCO Laboratories of Burlingame, California, has done what is called multi-element analysis, a measurement of the levels in parts per million of between 20 and 30 different trace minerals and toxic metals, on more than 200,000 people. The procedure uses blood and urine samples. The blood samples

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  1. #1
    Freak Nimrod25's Avatar
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    For all u guys obsessed with Gyno!! Check This Out!

    You may significantly be able to reduce the chances of getting gynecomastia, "bitch's tits," with a simple, inexpensive, legal supplementation—zinc. Here's the evidence.

    First some background.

    BALCO Laboratories of Burlingame, California, has done what is called multi-element analysis, a measurement of the levels in parts per million of between 20 and 30 different trace minerals and toxic metals, on more than 200,000 people. The procedure uses blood and urine samples. The blood samples used consist primarily of red blood cells and plasma. Many of the people analyzed are elite, professional and Olympic athletes such as the Seattle Supersonics, the Denver Broncos, and the Miami Dolphins, and at least 20 to 25 professional bodybuilders. For a technological description of the method and early applications to sports, watch this area of musclephotos.com. This description will soon be posted.

    From these analyses, BALCO Labs, Inc., has established that somewhere between 70 and 80% of the athletes tested are either "low" or "deficient" in zinc. For instance, among professional football players, the percentage is approximately 73%. Among professional bodybuilders, a depletion or deficiency of zinc also seems prevalent.

    Bill Roberts, in his article, "The History and Present Status of the Drug Development of Anabolic/Androgenic Steroids" in the June 1998 issue of Mesomorphosis (Volume 1, Number 1), comes tantalizingly close to the explanation. However, partly because of his background as a chemist rather than a biologist, and partly because his article places more of an emphasis on history than on explanations, he misses it. Perhaps he includes it elsewhere in his thesis or other writings.

    The answer may lie in an older article by Ae-Son Om and Kyung-Won Chung, published in the April 1996 Journal of Nutrition, 126[4]: 842-848. The article is entitled "Dietary Zinc Deficiency Alters 5 Alpha-Reduction and Aromatization of Testosterone and Androgen and Estrogen in Rat Liver." Both researchers are from the Department of Anatomical Sciences in the University of Oklahoma College of Medicine. They had done a previous study in 1990 on why alcoholics and coke addicts develop feminine characteristics. In this study, they had found that the hepatic aromatization of androgens to estrogens is enhanced by alcohol ingestion and cocaine administration. Both alcohol and cocaine also lower an individual's zinc levels, sometimes beyond depletion into actual deficiency. In their new work they sought an anatomical/biological explanation of why this occurred.

    In their new work, they used three populations of rats. (I can hear the critics' knee-jerk response: "But-rats-aren't-the-same-as-human-beings." Let me just note that rats have been used in biological investigations for years because a great many of their biological characteristics resemble those humans. It is also a lot easier to kill a rat for a microscopic anatomical investigation than it is to kill a bodybuilder. While one must be very cautious about extrapolating explanations from research with rats, sometimes this type of research can explain much that happens to people.)

    The three populations of rats included a group fed a zinc-deficient diet, a group fed a controlled but adequate diet of zinc, and a freely fed group.

    After keeping these populations on these diets for a long enough time to affect their plasma zinc levels, the scientists measured their testosterone and estrogen levels and measured and counted their androgen and estrogen receptor sites.

    Among the zinc deficient rats, they found the androgen receptor sites had become reduced in number and size by 40%. At the same time, the estrogen receptor sites increased by 60%. The liver's conversion of testosterone to estrogen was significantly greater in the rats on the zinc deficient diet. The same rats that had the decrease in androgen receptor sites showed significantly reduced amounts of lutinizing hormone and testosterone concentrations.

    Having a zinc-deficient diet evidently increased the aromatization of testosterone and the formation of estradiol, the primary estrogen hormone.

    One of the same researchers, Chung An, had also published research in Life Science, January 27, 1986, 38 [4]: 351-356, entitled "Androgen Receptors in the Ventral Prostate Gland of Zinc Deficient Rats." In this reasearch study,. there were only two groups of rats—those fed a zinc deficient diet for three months and those fed a controlled (zinc adequate) diet for the same amount of time. Analysis of the data revealed that the number of androgen binding sites of the zinc deficient rats' prostate was 31 fmol/mg cytosal protein. This was significantly lower than the 84 fmol/mg protein of the controls.

    Figure it out. Divide 31 by 84 and you have a 63% reduction in the number of androgen binding sites.

    If some of the testosterone (androgen) has nowhere to go—nowhere to bind—it will continue to circulate in the blood, finally being aromatized in the liver and producing estrogen. Bitch's tits, here you come!

    The lesson is very clear. If you are taking steroids, you probably should be taking supplemental zinc in order to reduce your chance of developing gynecomastia ("bitch's tits). Observe this warning: a multi-vitamin/multi-mineral tablet or two will not work. For reasons which will be explained later on this site, and which have been published numerous times in numerous places, these supplements are ineffective as far as zinc is concerned.

    A few additional comments. At least one of the "experts" in the newsgroup misc.fitness.weights has stated that all this material about zinc is "already known" and that gynecomastia "is not a serious problem in bodybuilding."

    Judge for yourself. When suggesting dosages of steroids to you, have these "experts" advised you to take zinc supplements? If they haven't, then this would suggest that they really don't know about the importance of using zinc in this situation. Interesting observation: Not a single professional bodybuilder out of the more than 20 we have recently tested and talked with has known of the connection between zinc deficiency and gynecomastia. If this information is so well known, you'd think the people who professionally need it the most would know it, wouldn't you?

    As to gynecomastia not being a serious problem., all we can say is that professional bodybuilders take the problem very seriously indeed. We've questioned them about this. We know.

    Another of the "gurus" advocated preventing gynecomastia by taking nolvadex, an "estrogen blocker" or estrogen receptor antagonist. Considering that this lowers ones HDL ("good") cholesterol levels, causes serious liver damage, and blocks the production of IGF-1 and growth hormone by at least 35%, that doesn't sound like very good advice to us. Better advice would be to use testolactone (the brand name is Teslac), an aromatase inhibitor that stops the effects of aromatase, is very safe and effective to use, according to physicians, but is difficult to get. and very expensive. Testolactone is said not only to prevent gynecomastia, but also to help clear it up once the condition has developed.

    The best advice of all, of course, is not to use steroids. When we say this, it doesn't represent some obligatory bow in the direction of political and legal correctness. We really believe it. But since a lot of you out there are going to use steroids, anyway, you might as well have good information to make your indulgence as safe and healthy as possible.

    Watch for an additional article soon to be posted explaining what to look for in trace mineral supplements. Armed with this information, you'll be able to walk into your local health food store and buy something that will actually do you some good instead of just lulling you into a false complacency.

  2. #2
    HappyScrappy
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    two things that I didn't see added in here:
    1) zinc is best absorbed by the body in small amounts over time - so if you injest a tablet of it by swallowing it and letting your stomach deal with it, it is an inefficient method - but a more effieicent method is a zinc lozenge (which by the way tastes like ass) that you suck on for an hour or so.

    2) too much zinc is bad for you. apparently from what I've seen in articles on it, the problem is very individual as to what is too much for a given person. 10tons an hour might be just dandy for me, but someone else might freak out at that much (obviously I just made up an enourmous number to prove a point there).

  3. #3
    Nathan's Avatar
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    Good post. Thanks.

  4. #4
    Pro Bodybuilder CYCLEON's Avatar
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    tastes like ass) that you suck on for an hour or so
    happy - im really hoping that that statement isnt born out of experience!!!

  5. #5
    ryker77
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    I can say from my first two cycles I used ZMA. I ran out and never bought anymore so when I started my third cycle Bam puffy tits. Though it was my first time using Dbol I can say I think had I used ZMA I might not need to spend 3grand for surgery. But I got some Ldex and have concetrated on chest alot more and its barley visable.

  6. #6
    Amateur Bodybuilder
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    This is definitely some great info. I'd like to see some more opinions on this.

  7. #7
    Pro Bodybuilder dork's Avatar
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    twin labs zma is real cheap, been using for a few months now..

  8. #8
    Pro Bodybuilder
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    great post...but remember zn is best taken along with a multi mineral supplement

  9. #9
    All Natural
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    try dicyclofenil

  10. #10
    Olympian
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    Might be something to it.... I stopped my cycle short a month ago because of gyno, and in the past 10 days it has started to go down. Around two weeks ago I started zinc/magnesium and also topical yohimbe HCL on the nips... one of those seems to be doing something.

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