Adex/Letro etc. should definitly be used post cycle even when considering lipids

[paul allen]

Early on when I first started using AAS, I had real problems getting the HPTA back into action, I now do a comprehensive pct of hcg, clomid, nolvadex, adex, avena sativa and maca.

So I am just posting this for any other newbies who have problems pct.

I have recently started extending adex into my pct, and I must say that it has made a great difference. I don't seem to crash at all and the way it stops acne flaring up is amazing (I got sick acne before using adex, now nothing). I think this could be due to the fact that the normal test levels are achieved much quicker, therefore less time for unstable hormones to cause acne.

I was just wanting to verify this by searching for some papers on whether it actually does increase test. I have read here that one study showed aromatase inhibitors increasing serum test by 58%, but below are just 3 of 10's of other studies illustrating why adex pct is likely to be very beneficial in preserving the all important gains!

I believe that the benefits of extending the adex for 2-3 weeks for pct far outways the negative effects on lipid profiles, which is likely to be negated anyway during post cycle due to using lots of SERMS, specifically nolvadex, which is great for lipid profiles.

Aromatase inhibition, testosterone, and seizures
Harden, Cynthia; MacLusky, Neil J
Department of Neurology and Neuroscience, Comprehensive Epilepsy Center, Weill Medical College of Cornell University, New York, NY, USA

Abstract
The effect of testosterone on brain excitability is unclear. The excitatory aspect of testosterone's action in the brain may be due to its conversion to estrogen via aromatase. We report herein a 61-year-old man with temporal lobe epilepsy and sexual dysfunction due to low testosterone levels. Use of an aromatase inhibitor, letrozole, normalized his testosterone level and improved his sexual functioning. Letrozole, in addition to standard antiseizure medication, was also associated with improved seizure control. This was sustained and, further, was associated with seizure exacerbation after withdrawing letrozole, and subsequent seizure improvement after restarting it. During the course of treatment, his serum testosterone level increased, sex hormone-binding globulin decreased ( SHBG) , luteinizing hormone (LH), and follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH) levels increased, while serum estradiol levels remained undetectable. Letrozole may, therefore, have produced a central alteration in the testosterone/ estrogen ratio, thereby impairing estrogen-mediated feedback control of the pituitary, resulting in the observed increase in circulating LH and FSH levels. This experience suggests that aromatase inhibitors should be further investigated as a beneficial treatment modality for male patients with epilepsy. [Journal Article; In English; United States]

Effects of aromatase inhibition in elderly men with low or borderline-low serum testosterone levels
Leder, Benjamin Z; Rohrer, Jacqueline L; Rubin, Stephen D; Gallo, Jose; Longcope, Christopher
Endocrine Unit, Department of Medicine, Massachusetts General Hospital, Boston, Massachusetts 02114, USA

Abstract
As men age, serum testosterone levels decrease, a factor that may contribute to some aspects of age-related physiological deterioration. Although androgen replacement has been shown to have beneficial effects in frankly hypogonadal men, its use in elderly men with borderline hypogonadism is controversial. Furthermore, current testosterone replacement methods have important limitations. We investigated the ability of the orally administered aromatase inhibitor, anastrozole, to increase endogenous testosterone production in 37 elderly men (aged 62-74 yr) with screening serum testosterone levels less than 350 ng/dl. Subjects were randomized in a double-blind fashion to the following 12-wk oral regimens: group 1: anastrozole 1 mg daily (n = 12); group 2: anastrozole 1 mg twice weekly (n = 11); and group 3: placebo daily (n = 14). Hormone levels, quality of life (MOS Short-Form Health Survey), sexual function (International Index of Erectile Function), benign prostate hyperplasia severity (American Urological Association Symptom Index Score), prostate-specific antigen, and measures of safety were compared among groups. Mean +/- SD bioavailable testosterone increased from 99 +/- 31 to 207 +/- 65 ng/dl in group 1 and from 115 +/- 37 to 178 +/- 55 ng/dl in group 2 (P < 0.001 vs. placebo for both groups and P = 0.054 group 1 vs. group 2). Total testosterone levels increased from 343 +/- 61 to 572 +/- 139 ng/dl in group 1 and from 397 +/- 106 to 520 +/- 91 ng/dl in group 2 (P < 0.001 vs. placebo for both groups and P = 0.012 group 1 vs. group 2). Serum estradiol levels decreased from 26 +/- 8 to 17 +/- 6 pg/ml in group 1 and from 27 +/- 8 to 17 +/- 5 pg/ml in group 2 (P < 0.001 vs. placebo for both groups and P = NS group 1 vs. group 2). Serum LH levels increased from 5.1 +/- 4.8 to 7.9 +/- 6.5 U/liter and from 4.1 +/- 1.6 to 7.2 +/- 2.8 U/liter in groups 1 and 2, respectively (P = 0.007 group 1 vs. placebo, P = 0.003 group 2 vs. placebo, and P = NS group 1 vs. group 2). Scores for hematocrit, MOS Short-Form Health Survey, International Index of Erectile Function, and American Urological Association Symptom Index Score did not change. Serum prostate-specific antigen levels increased in group 2 only (1.7 +/- 1.0 to 2.2 +/- 1.5 ng/ml, P = 0.031, compared with placebo). These data demonstrate that aromatase inhibition increases serum bioavailable and total testosterone levels to the youthful normal range in older men with mild hypogonadism. Serum estradiol levels decrease modestly but remain within the normal male range. The physiological consequences of these changes remain to be determined. [Clinical Trial, Journal Article, Randomized Controlled Trial; In English; United States]

Aromatase inhibition for the treatment of idiopathic hypogonadotropic hypogonadism in men with premature ejaculation
Holbrook, John M; Cohen, Paul G
Department of Pharmaceutical Sciences, Southern School of Pharmacy, Mercer University, Atlanta, GA 30341, USA; e-mail [email protected]

Abstract
BACKGROUND: Idiopathic hypogonadotropic hypogonadism (IHH) has been observed to occur in men with premature ejaculation (PE). Common IHH therapies include testosterone replacement, which increases testosterone levels but suppresses gonadotropin release; and gonadotropin-releasing hormone supplementation, which restores gonadotropin levels but is impractical for chronic use. Hormonal imbalances associated with IHH/PE are thought to be related to hyperactivity of the cytochrome P-450 enzyme aromatase. METHODS: Ten male patients with a diagnosis of IHH/PE were treated with the aromatase inhibitor anastrazole (1 mg/d orally). Levels of free and total testosterone, luteinizing hormone, follicle-stimulating hormone, prolactin, and estradiol were determined at baseline and after 2 weeks of therapy. RESULTS: After 2 weeks of therapy with anastrazole, levels of testosterone, luteinizing hormone, and estradiol had returned to normal. No effect was noted on premature ejaculation. CONCLUSION: These results suggest that aromatase inhibition with anastrazole may provide a practical and efficacious alternative for the treatment of IHH but is not effective in preventing premature ejaculation. [Clinical Trial, Journal Article; In English; United States]

 

[evolutionoftherevolution]

Early on when I first started using AAS, I had real problems getting the HPTA back into action, I now do a comprehensive pct of hcg, clomid, nolvadex, adex, avena sativa and maca.

So I am just posting this for any other newbies who have problems pct.

I have recently started extending adex into my pct, and I must say that it has made a great difference. I don't seem to crash at all and the way it stops acne flaring up is amazing (I got sick acne before using adex, now nothing). I think this could be due to the fact that the normal test levels are achieved much quicker, therefore less time for unstable hormones to cause acne.

I was just wanting to verify this by searching for some papers on whether it actually does increase test. I have read here that one study showed aromatase inhibitors increasing serum test by 58%, but below are just 3 of 10's of other studies illustrating why adex pct is likely to be very beneficial in preserving the all important gains!

I believe that the benefits of extending the adex for 2-3 weeks for pct far outways the negative effects on lipid profiles, which is likely to be negated anyway during post cycle due to using lots of SERMS, specifically nolvadex, which is great for lipid profiles.

Aromatase inhibition, testosterone, and seizures
Harden, Cynthia; MacLusky, Neil J
Department of Neurology and Neuroscience, Comprehensive Epilepsy Center, Weill Medical College of Cornell University, New York, NY, USA

Abstract
The effect of testosterone on brain excitability is unclear. The excitatory aspect of testosterone's action in the brain may be due to its conversion to estrogen via aromatase. We report herein a 61-year-old man with temporal lobe epilepsy and sexual dysfunction due to low testosterone levels. Use of an aromatase inhibitor, letrozole, normalized his testosterone level and improved his sexual functioning. Letrozole, in addition to standard antiseizure medication, was also associated with improved seizure control. This was sustained and, further, was associated with seizure exacerbation after withdrawing letrozole, and subsequent seizure improvement after restarting it. During the course of treatment, his serum testosterone level increased, sex hormone-binding globulin decreased ( SHBG) , luteinizing hormone (LH), and follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH) levels increased, while serum estradiol levels remained undetectable. Letrozole may, therefore, have produced a central alteration in the testosterone/ estrogen ratio, thereby impairing estrogen-mediated feedback control of the pituitary, resulting in the observed increase in circulating LH and FSH levels. This experience suggests that aromatase inhibitors should be further investigated as a beneficial treatment modality for male patients with epilepsy. [Journal Article; In English; United States]

Effects of aromatase inhibition in elderly men with low or borderline-low serum testosterone levels
Leder, Benjamin Z; Rohrer, Jacqueline L; Rubin, Stephen D; Gallo, Jose; Longcope, Christopher
Endocrine Unit, Department of Medicine, Massachusetts General Hospital, Boston, Massachusetts 02114, USA

Abstract
As men age, serum testosterone levels decrease, a factor that may contribute to some aspects of age-related physiological deterioration. Although androgen replacement has been shown to have beneficial effects in frankly hypogonadal men, its use in elderly men with borderline hypogonadism is controversial. Furthermore, current testosterone replacement methods have important limitations. We investigated the ability of the orally administered aromatase inhibitor, anastrozole, to increase endogenous testosterone production in 37 elderly men (aged 62-74 yr) with screening serum testosterone levels less than 350 ng/dl. Subjects were randomized in a double-blind fashion to the following 12-wk oral regimens: group 1: anastrozole 1 mg daily (n = 12); group 2: anastrozole 1 mg twice weekly (n = 11); and group 3: placebo daily (n = 14). Hormone levels, quality of life (MOS Short-Form Health Survey), sexual function (International Index of Erectile Function), benign prostate hyperplasia severity (American Urological Association Symptom Index Score), prostate-specific antigen, and measures of safety were compared among groups. Mean +/- SD bioavailable testosterone increased from 99 +/- 31 to 207 +/- 65 ng/dl in group 1 and from 115 +/- 37 to 178 +/- 55 ng/dl in group 2 (P < 0.001 vs. placebo for both groups and P = 0.054 group 1 vs. group 2). Total testosterone levels increased from 343 +/- 61 to 572 +/- 139 ng/dl in group 1 and from 397 +/- 106 to 520 +/- 91 ng/dl in group 2 (P < 0.001 vs. placebo for both groups and P = 0.012 group 1 vs. group 2). Serum estradiol levels decreased from 26 +/- 8 to 17 +/- 6 pg/ml in group 1 and from 27 +/- 8 to 17 +/- 5 pg/ml in group 2 (P < 0.001 vs. placebo for both groups and P = NS group 1 vs. group 2). Serum LH levels increased from 5.1 +/- 4.8 to 7.9 +/- 6.5 U/liter and from 4.1 +/- 1.6 to 7.2 +/- 2.8 U/liter in groups 1 and 2, respectively (P = 0.007 group 1 vs. placebo, P = 0.003 group 2 vs. placebo, and P = NS group 1 vs. group 2). Scores for hematocrit, MOS Short-Form Health Survey, International Index of Erectile Function, and American Urological Association Symptom Index Score did not change. Serum prostate-specific antigen levels increased in group 2 only (1.7 +/- 1.0 to 2.2 +/- 1.5 ng/ml, P = 0.031, compared with placebo). These data demonstrate that aromatase inhibition increases serum bioavailable and total testosterone levels to the youthful normal range in older men with mild hypogonadism. Serum estradiol levels decrease modestly but remain within the normal male range. The physiological consequences of these changes remain to be determined. [Clinical Trial, Journal Article, Randomized Controlled Trial; In English; United States]

Aromatase inhibition for the treatment of idiopathic hypogonadotropic hypogonadism in men with premature ejaculation
Holbrook, John M; Cohen, Paul G
Department of Pharmaceutical Sciences, Southern School of Pharmacy, Mercer University, Atlanta, GA 30341, USA; e-mail [email protected]

Abstract
BACKGROUND: Idiopathic hypogonadotropic hypogonadism (IHH) has been observed to occur in men with premature ejaculation (PE). Common IHH therapies include testosterone replacement, which increases testosterone levels but suppresses gonadotropin release; and gonadotropin-releasing hormone supplementation, which restores gonadotropin levels but is impractical for chronic use. Hormonal imbalances associated with IHH/PE are thought to be related to hyperactivity of the cytochrome P-450 enzyme aromatase. METHODS: Ten male patients with a diagnosis of IHH/PE were treated with the aromatase inhibitor anastrazole (1 mg/d orally). Levels of free and total testosterone, luteinizing hormone, follicle-stimulating hormone, prolactin, and estradiol were determined at baseline and after 2 weeks of therapy. RESULTS: After 2 weeks of therapy with anastrazole, levels of testosterone, luteinizing hormone, and estradiol had returned to normal. No effect was noted on premature ejaculation. CONCLUSION: These results suggest that aromatase inhibition with anastrazole may provide a practical and efficacious alternative for the treatment of IHH but is not effective in preventing premature ejaculation. [Clinical Trial, Journal Article; In English; United States]

This is cool shit bro. What dose are you running A-Dex during cycle and for PCT?

 

[bowling ball nutz]

one hell of a pct. all u need in adex, save the clomid for your yo yo friends

 

[bicepts101]

one hell of a pct. all u need in adex, save the clomid for your yo yo friends

dude why do u have a picture of your ass for an avatar.....i didnt know this was an underware catalog....lol

 

[out of control]

Good post would like to hear what some of our vets think on the subject.
BUMP

 

[b1ewsw32]

Great post PA. I have posted before about the use of a-dex for pct to increase endogenous test levels, and have read one of your studies previously.
It's interesting to see that in the first study, that the patient's sexual functioning improved while his estradiol levels remained undetectable.
Where many members report a loss of libido during letrozole usage due to what they consider low circulating estrogen levels.
I use arimidex during cycle and for pct, and I find that my libido stays strong and my testicles remain full. As long as I use a tried and proven dose for myself and of course adjust this during pct. I also use HCG,tamoxifen,clomid and dostinex.

I can atest to the point of excess estrogen causing excessive(negative)cns stimulation, as even if I use a low dose of test ie.150-250mgs/wk while taking finasteride I experience abnormal agitation,anxiety, fear and my neck muscles spasm constantly. Probably due to excess estrogen being formed from a lack of DHT conversion.
I removed the finasteride from my regimen, and incorporated the use of arimidex, and I can now handle doses of 500-600mgs/wk. with total comfort and positive energy.

B32

 

[calveless wonder]

Mild dose of A-dex or Letrozole in PCT is a must...along with clomid or nolva, can't go wrong.

I was very prone to acne and gyno before incorporating it and i didnt experience any of those problems while using it in conjunction with my normal PCT.

 

[junk]

Dr. JMW argues AGAINST the use of aromatase inhibitors such as anastrozole and letrozole claiming that if they are used during the cycle, there is not much need for them for pct as it may lower estradiol levels too much.

 

[Mavy]

There seem to be 2 groups of people on this, ones that believe that AIs are good for PCT, and others who believe that they are better used with aromatizing AAS ONLY!

For the best and fastest route to recovery, you have to start with your testes, and your focus on restoring LH should be your number one concern.
This is why HCG is key in my mind, as it will do this better than any AI or SERM will.

You want the HCG to provide your raisin nuts with a fast restoration of your original testicular mass and functioning, so that you can allow your nutsac to start pumping out normal levels of T much sooner than you would experience by using a SERM or AI alone.

SERMS are obviously good to run with the HCG, even though in the first couple of weeks of PCT, the SERMS dont do to much, they are beneficial when your t levels actually start to climb back on track. Thats why people run it for a few weeks after the discontinuation of HCG has stopped.

PCT for me involves
1. HCG
2. Nolva or Clomid
(In this order of importance as well)

I would not consider any dose or combo of SERMS or AIs capable of restoring HPTA effectively without the use of HCG. There are more sides to using AIs for PCT besides the obvious beating on your lipid panel. Your body needs estrogen in a normal physiological range for many things to function properly.
AIs are to be used with aromatising drugs, not for PCT.

 

[paul allen]

E of the R: My adex dose is 0.5mg ED when on cycle, and then I drop to 0.5mg EOD during first 2 weeks of pct, then drop to 0.25mg EOD for final week.

Good to hear it works for you B1 and calveless.

Mavy: Your bang on with the hcg, thats why I include it too, I tend to use it for last week of cycle, then immediatly start on clomid, nol, adex, maca and avena. Clomid is the main SERM I use, and nol is included at just 10mg ED for lipids.
Mavy, I was just illustrating the benefits of using adex in recovery, but was not suggesting it is exhaustive for post cycle.

I know there are two schools of people on this, but if you look for studies, there are getting towards 100 describing AI's positive influence on test levels. You can't ignore that! Why go through 10 weeks of AAS, and then lose an extra 3-4lbs say because you started to worry about lipid profiles during pct. JMO.