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1st cycle advice please

NinjaTurtles

New member
My 1st cycle may go like this...

1 Week prior to starting I will take CEL cycle assist
I will start running Creatine at week 3 after the mdrol is finished.
I always take multis.
I will be taking in around 4k cals 300gs protein quite a bit of carbs all before 7pm.
I will take a protein shake in the am follwing my workout and it will be spiked with honey and bananas for a nice insulin spike. I will take one in the pm following my dinner around 8.

Wk1-3 - 20mg Mdrol
Wk1-12 - 250mg test e (mainly due to the suppression of test caused by EQ)
Wk1-8 - 450mg EQ
Wk8-12- 600mg EQ
Wk12-16 Unleashed or Sustain
Wk13-16 Novadex

I want to run HCG during cycle (maybe at week 4/8/12) but would like to get the input from the EF membs.

How well does Needtos HCGenerate stack up to the injectable HCG?
 
seems way to fancy for a first cycle

why not just run it simply, that way if you experience any side effects you can combat them easily knowing whats causing them

id run ur cycle like this

weeks 1-4 30mg m-drol daily
weeks 1-12 testerone cyp (or eth) 500mg weekly

u should start ur novadex pct administration 14 days (for etanthate ester) after ur last shot

as for hcg imo i dont think it be required for such a basic cycle, i never used hcg on my first cycle and my testies dropped back within a week, aswell as my sex drive came bak fast

however if u do wish to use it then ur only going to strengthen ur pct and recovery
+1 ^^^^^
 
I'm really not interested in the test at all, but only due to the testosterone supression am I running the test e. That is the reason for running the low dose. IF it weren't for that I would run the EQ solo along with the mdrol and pct.

You don't think that the hpta shutdown calls for a good hcg jumpstart? Anytime my test and testies were shutdown I think I would prefer something countering that...
 
I'm really not interested in the test at all

You should be very interested in test and test only your first cycle. It will give far more gains than eq.


honey and bananas aren't going to spike your insulin as its mostly fructose. Use a simple sugar post workout like maltodextrin, waxy maize or dextrose
 
Thanks bloke for the input.

The reason I don't want to use test alone are the sides. Main reason I don't want to use the test alone is because of the high dose. 500mg is the typical dose for a beginner and thats double of what I want. I only want my test levels to remain natural like, nothing spiked. I mentioned 250mg ew only to keep my levels closer to norm with what the EQ will supress. At higher doses I will start to see the side effects I'm trying to stay away from which are the water retention/bloat, BP, and the speeding up of MPB. I experaince minor MPB but I don't want it to speed up and test is known to convert to dht faster than just about any other steroid.


So I guess it all boils down to ones specific goals which I fail to mention and I appologize. I am 5'7 153lbs and my goal is to be 165 and lean. Thats why I'm choosing the EQ. It's gradual quality gains with no water retention. EQ is mildly anabolic but also very mild androgenic which adds another check to my yes column lol.
 
You should be very interested in test and test only your first cycle. It will give far more gains than eq.


honey and bananas aren't going to spike your insulin as its mostly fructose. Use a simple sugar post workout like maltodextrin, waxy maize or dextrose

Below is a GREAT article from start to finish, but I highlighted the rebuttal to the above statement.


Most people eat sugar excessively in today's world of fast food and candy bars. The reason sugar causes fat storage so fast is because it is a simple carbohydrate which digests very quickly. Excess sugar in the bloodstream is unhealthy so the body immediately stores it as fat. Here are the different types of sugars:
  • Monosaccharide: Made of only one sugar molecule, they are the simplest form of carbohydrates and cause the greatest insulin spike because they digest so fast. Very sweet (fructose, glucose, dextrose, ribose, galactose)
  • Disaccharide: Made of 2 sugar molecules bonded together, they also digest extremely quickly and cause a great insulin spike. Sweet (lactose, sucrose, maltose, trehalose.)
  • Polysaccharide: Made of many molecules of sugar bonded together, they are not sweet, and digest slowly. They do not create insulin spikes, and provide a constant, slow digesting supply of glucose to the blood. They are the ideal and healthiest source of carbohydrates, (Starch, cellulose, glycogen)
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What Are The Negatives Of Sugar?
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Excess sugar causes:
  • Obesity
  • Tooth Decay
  • Vitamin and mineral deficiencies
  • Insulin insensitivity
  • Improper endocrine function
  • Improper immune system function
  • May cause diabetes
  • Causes hyperactivity, followed by drowsiness and energy deficiency
  • Contributes to heart disease and other illnesses
  • Addiction
Too much sugar is not good for anyone. Sugar can cause diabetes, insensitivity to insulin, tooth decay and rotting, obesity, and heart disease. However, sugar has some advantages, which will come later in the article.
Sugar is a fast digesting carbohydrate with a high glycemic index. This means it digests quickly and causes a rapid rise in blood sugar levels. After ingesting sugar, blood sugar levels begin to rise, which your body does not like. Your body's response to this is to release a hormone called insulin, which pumps your muscles full of sugar (which they don't like), and stores the excess sugar as fat (which we don't want). This is obviously counter-productive for bodybuilders. But don't jump to conclusions just yet.
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Does Using Sugar Have Any Benefits For A Bodybuilder?
Are there certain times, such as post-workout, where an insulin spike could be useful to a bodybuilder?
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After a workout, your muscles are tired and depleted of their energy stores. At this stage, your body is in a catabolic or breaking down state of both muscle and fat.
Your body is breaking down muscles and fat for energy, because you've used up all your energy during your workout. How do we reverse this? Well, as you know, sugar causes increase blood sugar levels. Increasing your blood sugar levels will pump the excess sugar into your muscles, and since your muscles need all the sugar they can get, there will be no excess sugar to store as fat!
Conclusively, it would actually be productive to cause an insulin spike post workout to pump your muscles full of the energy and nutrients which you've depleted during your workout!
Ingesting a mixture of high glycemic index sugar as well as protein has been shown to cause a much greater insulin spike than ingesting sugar alone. We all know eating protein post workout is vital, but don't cut back on the sugar too.
Eating a couple of bananas or adding honey to your post workout shake will do your body a favor! But hold on, don't take this too literally and eat 2 bars of chocolate post workout. Remember, the healthier sources the better.
Another time when an insulin spike is beneficial to a bodybuilder is immediately after waking up. Your body has been without food for 8 hours while you were asleep, and - unless you had a good protein filled meal before sleep - has been burning muscle.
This would be a great time get an insulin spike to pump energy into your muscles and revive your system, because the body is in a similar state to the one it was in post workout.
Again, ingesting lost of protein, some sugar, and some slow digesting carbohydrates would be great in the morning. Just a slight increase in insulin would be effective in the morning. This is because, although your body has bee fasting for 8 hours, it wasn't exercising or using muscle, so it needs significantly less energy.
Another reason bodybuilders use sugar is if they use creatine. The insulin spike will help shuttle the creatine more effectively to the muscles without bloating.
Why go for an outdated product such as creatine monohydrate and have to eat tons of sugar just to be able to get it into your muscles? Just switch to micronized creatine or CEE (creatine ethyl ester) to get much better results with less sugar, and less around the waistline! We should try to use technology to our advantage!


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Post-Workout Meal:
What is the best post-workout meal for me?
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A good post-workout meal contains:
  1. Minerals
  2. Vitamins
  3. Sugar
  4. Protein
Let's compare 2 bananas and a tablespoon of honey to 2 bars of chocolate to see which the best post workout meal is. We'll call bananas meal #1, and the bar of chocolate meal #2. To make your own comparisons, you can use this free database containing nutritional information about all foods.
Meal ComparisonNutritionMeal # 1Meal # 2The Better MealSugars 68.9g 45.4g Meal # 1 Carbs 25g 52.2g Meal # 2 Calcium 11.8mg 176.4mg Meal # 2 Potassium 844.9mg 327.4mg Meal # 1 Fats 0.8mg 26.2g Meal # 1 Sodium 2mg 70mg Meal # 1 Fiber 6.1g 3g Meal # 1 Cholesterol 0mg 20mg Meal # 1

The last column states which meal would be best considering the specific nutritional part it is talking about. For example, bananas have more potassium so meal one was chosen to be best in this area. Bananas have less cholesterol so they were also chosen to be the best meal.
We can see from this table that bananas would be the best meal to eat post workout. 2 bananas have more sugar than a piece of chocolate, which would make a better insulin spike. They have more potassium, which has been shown to lower blood pressure, create optimum nerve functioning during exercise, reduce muscle soreness, increase strength, and helping in synthesis of protein. These things are obviously vital for bodybuilders.
Bananas have less saturated fats, less sodium, more fiber, and less cholesterol. Conclusively, 2 bananas and a protein shake is the best post-workout meal! Also, it would be best to have a multivitamin and a fish oil capsule post workout to give your body vitamins and some good fats to feed your muscles.
  • An ideal endomorph post workout meal: An ideal mesomorph post workout meal:
    • 3 bananas
    • 1 teaspoon of honey
    • Multi Vitamin
    • Fish Oil
    An ideal mesomorph post workout meal:
    • 3 bananas
    • 1 tablespoon of honey
    • Multi Vitamin
    • Fish Oil
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Reaction:
How much sugar do you think an average bodybuilder should consume?
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Quantity is not as important as when its consumed. You can consume some extra sugar without any problem if you consume it at the right time, such as post workout or in the morning. This means that almost all of your sugar should be consumed post workout or in the morning.
However, as a general rule:
  • Endomorph (fat person): 0.2 g per pound of body fat
    Mesomorph (muscular person): 0.4 g per pound of body fat
    Ectomorph (skinny person): 0.6 g per pound of body fat
Endomorphs, or people whose bodies are more prone to gaining fat, need less sugar because their body gains muscle fast already. The excess sugar will cause extra fat. Mesomorphs need a normal amount of sugar because they have a normal body. Ectomorphs need large amounts of sugar to pack on muscle because their body will not pack on muscle easily.

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Bonus:
Have you had any issues or success using sugar?
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I have always added a little sugar in my post workout meal with great results. Being an endo/meso morph, I found I need to hardly use any to get great results. I suggest not overdoing it because it will help in accumulation of fat unless you're an ectomorph. Before I found bodybuilding.com and read about using sugar post workout, I did not consume any sugar before or after my workout. I got less than optimal results, even though I was still starting and should have had extremely fast muscle gain. Now, by using sugar sparingly post workout, I have been able to boost my gains substantially.
Using excess sugar, however, can actually by catabolic to the muscle, and cause fat accumulation and lack of energy! After eating a meal with lots of sugar, your body releases insulin, which pumps the sugar into the muscles and switches off your body's fat burning capacity and switches on fat storage. The insulin removes excess sugar from the blood because it assumes more is coming. This is because, in the past, it was difficult to cause an insulin spike without eating loads of food because there weren't many foods high in sugar.
As a result, your body stores so much sugar as fat that it goes below the optimum glucose levels. Your body now realizes that all you ate was a bar of chocolate and that there is no more glucose on the way. Your body would usually burn some fat to supply the blood with enough sugar, however, the ever so helpful insulin decided to shut off the fat burning switch, so the only other option is - you guessed it - muscle! Conclusively, do not create an insulin spike unless it's in the morning or post workout because you will cause muscle breakdown.
Overdoing sugar, however, can lead to less insulin sensitivity. This means you would have to ingest more sugar and release more insulin to get the same reaction of pumping the muscles full of sugar. This can lead to quick fat accumulation as insulin stops fat burning. It's best to take sugar in moderation, only during post workout or in the morning, and to ingest protein with it to cause an insulin spike without needing to eat so much sugar.
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Conclusion:
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The key to sugar is to use it at specific times in moderation. These times are post workout or in the morning. If you use creatine, and need to ingest a lot of sugar to absorb it, I suggest taking it on an empty stomach immediately post workout, and then your protein and moderate sugar 20 min after your workout. This will maximize the benefits by putting the insulin spike and the creatine spike at roughly the same time. Try switching to a more absorbent form of creatine such as micronized or CEE for better results with less bloating.
 
Thanks bloke for the input.

The reason I don't want to use test alone are the sides. Main reason I don't want to use the test alone is because of the high dose. 500mg is the typical dose for a beginner and thats double of what I want. I only want my test levels to remain natural like, nothing spiked. I mentioned 250mg ew only to keep my levels closer to norm with what the EQ will supress. At higher doses I will start to see the side effects I'm trying to stay away from which are the water retention/bloat, BP, and the speeding up of MPB. I experaince minor MPB but I don't want it to speed up and test is known to convert to dht faster than just about any other steroid.


So I guess it all boils down to ones specific goals which I fail to mention and I appologize. I am 5'7 153lbs and my goal is to be 165 and lean. Thats why I'm choosing the EQ. It's gradual quality gains with no water retention. EQ is mildly anabolic but also very mild androgenic which adds another check to my yes column lol.
Really doesn't make sense. You're rulling out test (which you DON'T need 500mg to gain 10lbs on a first cycle btw), but yet considering 400-600mg of EQ, which has it's own sides (BP, anxiety when you get over 400mg, the possibility of water retention over 400mg, etc.) - EQ is not side free dude, and you have to use more EQ to get the same results you would with jhust test especially on your first cycle. You could do a short 8 week cycle of 250-300mg of test and hit your goals, be virtually side free, and SEE how you will react to test. Basically how you react to test is how you will react to twice the dose of EQ, etc. Not to mention your cycle is not really long enough to see the full effects of the EQ.

Basically you're all worried about the sides related to the natural hormone your body already produces, but are planning to run 250mg of test (anyway) and then dump 400-600mg of an un-natural (veterinary) steroid into your body on top of that as well as use Mdrol. You're thinking is kinda twisted. Do you see what I am saying? Running 250mg test + 600mg EQ is like running 500mg of test for a first cycle - and the test sides are more easily countered. And at your side I don't think you even need 500mg.

I'd run 375mg of test e for 8-10 weeks and aromasin to counter estrogen. If test is going to be the base of you cycles in the future, why not see how it's going to effect you and grow on it as your first cycle.
 
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