Here is more about metformin and creatine
Posted by WG on March 19, 1997 at 18:29:42:
In Reply to: Re:Another 2 cents from ...... posted by Another Jeff on March 19, 1997 at 11:13:19:
: : You gotta wonder what they are thinking over there sometimes! Maybe they just think about their money too much and feel that idiots like us will believe anything they spew out. Metformin in designed to INHIBIT sugar rushes by binding it at the small intestine. As far as I can see this would shunt the insulin rise that you want taking creatine. I've made and taken met. and I only took it with meals. Anarchy in the USA!
: Creatine does not cause an increase in sugar and there
: is synergism not antagonism. You take creatine with
: a sugary drink to cause an insulin spike because of
: the theory that insulin will cause a greater uptake
: of the creatine into the cells along with the glucose
: and aminos but creatine doesn't cause the sugar
: increase. I find it hard to believe the gang at MM2k
: would make such a blatant error- no offence but
: could you have misread the article?
: If, as you say, Metformin mimicks insulin by causing
: a greater uptake of glucose, aminos and creatine
: into the cells, then it might be good to take a high
: glycemic carb drink with creatine and metformin as
: a post workout recovery drink. The insulin and metformin
: would both work together to increase refueling and
: creatine uptake. This idea only works if metformin
: acts as an insulin mimicker. If Animal is right and
: the metformin inhibits sugar by binding inside the
: small intestine, then this theory is all wrong.
: Another Jeff
Well, since English isn't my native tongue, it's possible that I misunderstood what they said. So, let me highlight the question and answer published in MMK2 (April 97) at page 47:
"GURU: I plan to compete in track and field, and I was thinking of using a metformin/creatine stack. Is this a good stack ? I was also thinking of using your BODYOPUS diet. Would this improve my performance as a sprinter, jumper, or thrower ?"
"A: Metformin usually lowers insulin secretion, wich is just the opposite of what you want with creatine. And if you use high-glicemic carbs with metformin (and creatine), it might cause hypoglycemia. ..."
Am I wrong ? As far I understand, Duchaine is telling to not take both products together, because they have opposite effects, right ? To clarify what metformin does, here goes part of the Glucoformin's directions (Brazilian Glucophage), (poorly) translated from Portuguese:
"GLUCOFORMIN should be used primarily in the treatment of diabetes mellitus non insulin-dependent (type II), when isolated treatment is insuficient. It's specially usefull within overweight patients, in whose the metformin frequently leads to a decrease of weight. ...
Unlike sulfonilureics, GLUCOFORMIN acts by several extra peripheral pancreatic mecanisms, increasing the body's sensitivity to the action of its own insulin, instead of stimulating the endocrenous secretion of this hormone. The main mecanisms involved are:
1 - increase of peripheral glucose utilization by muscle tissues, in presence of insulin.
2 - Potentiating of insulin action, increasing the link affinity and insulin receptors numbers within the tissues.
3 - inhibition of hepatic glucogenesis.
Reading the statements above I have to conclude:
a - Duchaine is wrong when he says that metformin lowes insulin secretion. Instead, it enhances the sensitivity to the existing blood insulin.
b - it seems that, in fact, creatine should work SINERGISTICALLY with metformin (one stimulating insuling production, the other enhancing its utilization).
c - for me, it sounds great taking metformin some time before your workout, because your muscles will be plenty of glucose fuel (supposing it took a good carb meal). Meanwhile, your blood would show low glucose levels (wich means less bodyfat).
Sorry for the long post, but I tought it would be of general interest.