....beauty knows no pain.
[This message has been edited by WarLobo (edited January 29, 2001).]||152.163.201.189||reg|| Z||000003||bikinimom||01-29-2001||11:01 AM||bikinimom@elitefitness.com||I would not touch this one with a ten foot pole.......HEY IG, THIS ONE'S FOR U!
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....beauty knows no pain.
[This message has been edited by bikinimom (edited January 29, 2001).]||24.4.252.64||reg||
Z||000004||MeaNFReaK666||01-29-2001||01:26 PM||||Hey when you take clen its hard for someone else to tell you how much to take. The first time you play around with it you probably wont get it right LOL. Its very user sensative. Some will take 2-3 tabs and want to pull their damn hair out. So I say take em one day until you cant stand the sides and subtract one pill from that and thats your max. Then set up a 2 week pyramid cycle and run it 2 on 2 off with eca in the off weeks.
each number represents # of tabs per day:
1122334455665544332211000000000000001122334456666544332211
before even trying clen.. u should make sure that you have tried as hard as u can and u shouldnt use drugs as a first resort.. another thing.. the cycle above is for a man.. so u should probably cut it down a lil bit.. be sure to eat healthy.. cause ive seen way to many girls that think that starving themselves will make them lose weight.. in reality.. it puts ur body in survival mood and instead of eating the fat it starts to take the muscle.. not a good thing.. make sure u get protein.. eat smart.. and healthy.. be sure to do cardio... thats very important.. just takin clen wont make u lose weight u still need to work.. during the 2 off weeks be sure to use a eca stack...
any more questions just ask.. hope that helps...
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...INSIDE MY SHELL I WAIT AND BLEED....||172.140.171.28||reg||
Z||000005||blackhaus1||01-29-2001||11:29 PM||kab0924@hushmail.com||Lobo, I stole this from Ula at the AF board and I figured I'd save everyone here the trouble of answering this, so:
This was written By Warlobo in May. I found it very interesting and helpful so I am posting it here with his permission.
CLENBUTEROL: Also called: Broncodil, Broncoterol, Cesbron, Clenasma, Clenbuter, Pharmachim, Contrasmina, Contraspasmina, Monores, Novegam, Oxyflux, Prontovent, Spiropent, Ventolase, and Ventapulmin.
Clen is available in 10 - 20 mcg tablets or in the .016 mg/gram Ventapulmin Vet variety. Clenbuterol is known as a sympathomimetic. These hormones are taken to mimic adrenaline and noradrenaline in the human body. Clenbuterol is a selective beta-2 agonist that is used to stimulate the beta receptors in fat and muscle tissue in the body. Clenbuterol exhibits most of it's effects on the stimulation of both type 2 and 3 beta receptors. Clenbuterol is really one of bodybuilding's most misunderstood performance enhancement drugs. It is true that it is effective in helping to burn bodyfat but it is often been stated that clenbuterol is effective in causing anabolic gains and has in times even been compared to some of the weaker anabolic steroids. Books such as the World Anabolic Review, 1996, by P. Grunding and M. Bachmann state incorrectly that, "its effects, however, can by all means be compared to those of steroids. Similar to a combination of Winstrol Depot and Oxandrolone...." These statements are inaccurate and misleading to say the least. A lot of these claims as to the anabolic effects of clenbuterol are derived from studying the effects of clenbuterol on livestock. Clenbuterol is effective in increasing muscle mass and decreasing fat loss in animals.
The problem with the variation in anabolic effects between humans and livestock is that livestock have an abundance of the type-3 beta receptors whereas humans have little if any of the type 3 beta receptors. These beta-3 receptors increases insulin secretion and sensitivity, causing more glucose and amino acids to be transported into skeletal muscle thus causing the anabolic effects that we, humans, just aren't seeing. As Dan Duchaine stated in his Muscle Media article on clenbuterol, "In those animal research studies showing an anabolic effect from clenbuterol, it's my guess the anabolism happens specifically when the beta-2 receptor stops working. At that point, the beta-3 increases and causes the anabolic effect through insulin mechanisms."
Since humans, again, have either very little or no beta-3 receptors, there is no chance of this anabolic effect. Just another of the studies where everyone assumed that what works in animals must work in humans. This is just simply not the case with clenbuterol.
Clenbuterol does work effectively as a fat burner though. It does this by slight increases in the body temperature. With each degree that the temperature in your body is raised from the use of clenbuterol, you will burn up approximately an extra 5% of maintenance calories. This makes it effective as a fat burner. Your body will fight this by cutting down on the amount of active thyroid in the body as well as through beta receptor down regulation which explains why you only have a limited effective period to take clenbuterol. While I am on the subject of beta receptor down regulation, I would like to dispose of another myth. This involves the two on/two off cycling theory that I believe was originated by Bill Phillips in the Anabolic Reference Guide and has somehow made it's was into every other steroid book since then including the WAR and Physical Enhancement with an Edge. The two on-two off theory simply will not work because of one main reason: the half life of clenbuterol. This 2-on/2-off idea was a THEORY ONLY, not by a doctor or scientist, and not based on specific knowledge of clenbuterol, but derived by imitation from other drug's with shorter half lives.
Clenbuterol has been reported as having a half life of about 2 days, but that is not actually correct, since it has biphasic elimination, with the half-life of the rapid phase being about 10 hours, and the slower phase being several days. Supposedly, this is one of the reasons the FDA never approved clenbuterol as an anti-asthmatic drug...the FDA frowns on drugs with long half-lives if drugs with more normal half-lives are available. So with a 2-on/2-off cycle you never have time to get enough of the clenbuterol out of your system for this theory to be reasonable. In actuality, it probably hasn't even dropped to 50% of your peak concentration before you are taking the drug again.
With this all taken into account, there is no reason to think that this cycling would significantly reduce the problem of receptor desensitization. A more reasonable approach would be either one week on, one week off, or alternately, two weeks on two weeks off. The two week cycle has the disadvantage of a "crash" period afterwards. This crash period can be helped with the use of ephedrine to lessen the lethargy that you will experience.
If you are interested in taking clenbuterol for anything other than fat loss then you might as well stay away from this compound. There is a lot of talk as to how clenbuterol compares to ephedrine as well. Most "experts" feel that clen gives a better bang for the buck than the ECA stack. It should be noted that clenbuterols results and effects are much shorter lived. They work through very similar mechanisms. Both products stimulate the beta-receptors but clenbuterol seems to be a more refined version, called a second generation beta-agonist drug, than ephedrine. Clenbuterol targets the proper receptors, being the beta-2 and 3 receptors than ephedrine more specifically which should in theory make clenbuterol more effective of a fat burner. Again, most of the so called "experts" say that clenbuterol is more effective than ephedrine. I, personally, get worse results with clen vs. the good old ECA stack. Clenbuterol also didn't blunt my hunger either and I ate more while taking it as well. I also seem to get much better effects out of cytomel as a fat burner as well. Even better than the ECA stack or clenbuterol. But, again, that is my personal opinion.
Clenbuterol, medically used throughout many parts of the world as a broncodilator for the treatment of asthma, is a recent and popular addition to the realm of athletics. Clenbuterol is a beta-2 agonist, with properties somewhat similar to adrenaline. It acts as a CNS stimulant and users quite commonly report side effects such as shaky hands, insomnia, sweating, increased blood pressure and nausea. These side effects generally subside quickly once the user becomes accustomed to the drug. Athletes find clenbuterol attractive for it's pronounced thermogenic effects as well as mild anabolic properties. Dosage regimes will vary depending on the desired effect. Clenbuterol generally come is 20mcg tablets, although it s also available in syrup and injectable form. Users will usually tailor their dosage individually, depending on results and side effects, but somewhere in the range of 2-8 tablets per day is most common. For fat loss, clenbuterol seems to stay effective for 3-6 weeks, then it's thermogenic properties seem to subside. This is noticed when the body temperature drops back to normal. It's anabolic properties subside much quicker, somewhere around 18 days. Currently, counterfeits of clenbuterol do exist, but they are scarce and most are bottles with loose tablets. Clenbuterol should only be trusted when purchased in foil and plastic strips, preferably with accompanying box and paperwork.
Effective Dose: 80-140 mcgs. / day in split doses throughout the day. Anything over 140 mcg a day is overkill since the beta receptors can only take so much of a product and then more is just wasteful.
Street Price: $.50 - 1.00 / tab. Fairly inexpensive in Mexico though. Spiropent is currently going for about $7.50/box, Novegam for $5.25/box, and Oxyflux for about $3.30/box.
Stacking Info: One week on, one week off might make sense, or alternately, two weeks on two weeks off makes sense but has the disadvantage of a "crash" period afterwards. You can take ephedrine after the clen to help reduce this "crash" period or at least make it more bearable for you. The two on/two off theory is absolute bullshit and can't work; read above.
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Z||000006||WarLobo||01-30-2001||12:57 PM||warlobo@operamail.com||Not a prob and thanks BlackH 
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LAte
Lobo||209.239.227.203||reg|| Z||000007||MarlaSinger||01-31-2001||01:33 AM||marlasinger@hushmail.com||What is your current diet? How long have you been training? What do you want to take clen for? Are you thinking about competing? If your diet is great all the time, not just some of the time, you train extremely hard and have been serious about your training for the past 1-2 years, then you can begin to think about starting a cycle. But if your diet is off, your training is mediocre, then doing some clen here and there (and maybe some other things) really won't be that beneficial. Eat clean, train hard. Exhaust all other options before even thinking about doing any kind of cycle.
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||206.250.232.17||reg||
Z||000008||ATP||02-01-2001||01:34 PM||||i don't think Clen is all it's cracked up to be. i've tried it a couple of times and still get better results and less side effects with an ECA stack. have you tried a good ECA stack yet? is your diet on? as well as cardio & weight training? all of these things have to come together or the clen wont do a thing. i think the ECA stack works better because supresses your appetite while being thermogenic at the same time. when i've done clen, i'm hungry as a horse!
if you do use clen, try doing a one week on, one week off cycle. take an ECA stack on the off week. start out with just one pill a day (20 mcgs) and work up. you probably shouldn't take more than 60 mcgs a day (i'm assuming you're not very big since you're a female. if you weigh more than 150, you might be able to get away with 80mcgs a day)
..::ATP::..||199.174.169.85||reg||