F1||65.24.124.217||reg||
Z||000001||Monster||12-07-2000||10:18 PM||monster@musclemail.com||Not to jump in here as a man and answer a female oriented post, but I think the reasoning behind it is much the same from a male or female perspective.
We are not by any means or by any stretch of the imagination a group of people who are in anyway "mainstream".
We're athletes on a whole other level. Whereas a traditional athlete is out there doing what they love, they are also (even if deep down) enjoying the appreciation of the fans and the fame and acclaim they recieve.
We get no respect from any quarter. We are looked down on by doctors, the media, the public, and we often have to put up with petty squabbling and useless competativness among "our own".
So why???
Well, I think we are actually trying to provoke the reaction we recieve.
We WANT to be different.
We WANT to be physically superior.
We WANT to be a step above the rest.
So a woman feeling this way is based on the same feelings, I think!
A desire to be bigger and fitter than the "average" woman. The attention and the personal satisfaction of setting and meeting goals.
So AAS comes into play the same as it does for men. Either to break a physical limit and continue to progress, or to give current progress that little extra "umph".
Many of these women are living proof that the "evils of steroids" are greatly overstated and often a downright lie.
This is another subject that irks me! The public looking down their noses at something they dont like... the old "if I dont like it, nobody should" B.S.
Mabye I think the emaciated look of a female distance runner is gross? Ewww, who would want to look so guant and thin?
Mabye I think the Fitness Model look is sick? Those poor girls forcing themselves into this plastic Barbie mold instead of being themselves!
Really, I feel like ANYONE who has made an effort in any field they feel they want to apply themselves in is due a lot of respect. I like all of it, including female bodybuilding, but if I didnt I dont think Id feel the need to question others and look down my nose at them...
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It takes two to lie, Marge. One to lie and one to believe it.
Ambition is a poor excuse for not having enough sense to be lazy||24.4.252.151||reg||
Z||000002||Hardtail||12-08-2000||01:52 AM||||Monster,
How cool are you? I couldn't have put it better myself.
Hangin' around this board sure helps the male mind, don't it?||204.60.51.82||reg||
Z||000003||F1hybrid||12-08-2000||05:00 AM||phatboy@columbus.rr.com||Good response Monster. Gonna save that one for a lecture or article.
Keep the comments coming. I'd really like a good number of responses on this one.
I'd like to hear it from the users perspective, not only the interpretation based on a small number of subjects given by researchers like Harrison Pope and others.
F1||65.24.124.217||reg||
Z||000004||Monster||12-08-2000||07:12 AM||monster@musclemail.com||Hardtail: This is the only place I can speak my mind... my friends would accuse me of being "girly" if they heard! 
(hey, I assure you, Im all man!)
Heh heh, anyway. Lets hear from the ladies, why did ya start and how do you feel about it now? (and how long have you used for?)||24.4.252.150||reg|| Z||000005||luv2workout||12-08-2000||08:50 AM||shanshan3@ivillage.com||Monster summed it up for all of us....I have not yet used any A/S at this point but have been considering for the EXACT reasons Monster stated...I am just waiting to see what I can accomplish "naturally" so to speak and to LEARN all I can before I make that decision...||205.188.195.52||reg|| Z||000007||Trinity13||12-08-2000||12:29 PM||trinity1113@hotmail.com||I have done only one cycle and am seriously considering another one in March. I am very happy with the results I got from my first cycle. NO regrets other than should have researched more before choosing the drug I did.
I was one of those women that said I didn't want to get big. But I now realize that, that was just an excuse to be lazy. My husband has lifted for years and I could never quite understand the motivitation behind it. What kept him pushing himself to get bigger or stronger. You can't understand it until you actually do it.
Well, now I am what you would call a hardcore bodybuilder there is nothing that I don't do that does not take into consideration the ultimate effect it will have on my body. People that are close to me think I am obsessed. Although I have started out in this lifesytle late in life I can tell you that my motivation is self appreciation. I had always had self esteem issues but that has all changed now. I feel good about myself and look the best that I have ever looked. Plus all the compliments I've been getting don't hurt either. I still have a ways to go to look like Fitness Chick, Bikinimom or MS but that is definitely my ultimate goal.
I was a fat skinny person and had no notion about nutrition. This has been a great learning experience for me. This is a lifestyle not just a sport.
So I definitely agree with Monster that we do it for the same reasons:
To be different, physically superior and a step above the rest.
Just my .02
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You can not accomplish what your mind can not conceive.||209.214.4.5||reg||
Z||000008||BuffBlondie||12-08-2000||01:45 PM||buffchick2@aol.com||to be able to "hang" with the other competitors...i've got good genetics, I just couldn't seem to get my shoulders bigger...well, it worked! ||152.163.195.208||reg||
Z||000009||Artemis||12-08-2000||01:49 PM||huntress@operamail.com||Bump for Monster. Bump for Elitism.
For a good long while I was all-natural. Not a proudly, indignant, flag-wavingly so, -just was. And a powerlifter in highschool. Broke school track and field records. That sort of thing. And would not have seen the need for AAS or even supplemental vitamins -nothing. Didn't even have braces as a child, though no doubt I sorely need(ed) them.
Anyhow: at one point during college I had trouble with hypothalamic hypogonadism. Life without endogenous steroids is no walk-in-the-park. I started to experience the same sort of troubles typically talked about with menopause. I began to get fatter in the wrong places. Became weak. And I found that no local doctor was interested in helping, aside to heap on stereotypical abuse regarding how I should join the conventional nonsense 'diet and exercise' bandwagon.
There is little more demeaning then to be sitting down staring at the floor when some MD goes on about how a bit of jogging or less bread or something will make me into a 'new-person' when I remember being fit to start with. This preaching about diet/exercise continued despite that I was failing gonadotrophin tests. The docs ignored this and simply encouraged anorexia.
After many such fruitless appointments with ignorant medical specialists I got sick & tired of their abusive attitudes and joined the dark side. No regrets. I already knew a good deal about AAS and related items long before then anyhow. To the extent that I feel comfortable with therapy. If I posess elite and arcane chemical and physiological knowledge than I determined to use it for my own benefit. And so I have.
Again, no regrets whatsoever. None. One of the best choices I ever did. Now if only I could fix the #@!$#@! damage and fatty deposits to go away so I can be lithe like before.
Sorry this turned into a bit of a rant folks, but F1Hybrid Did ask... ||131.104.100.142||reg|| Z||000010||NoviceFox||12-08-2000||02:44 PM||bttrflykiss1698@hotmail.com||Hey love2workout, I am with you. I have not used anything up tot his point, but I have it on the brain bad. Still doing the research like you stated. But Monster is right. Being fit and looking good, having muscle...it's great. It makes me FEEL great. That is why I am considering that extra pump. Most people, women mostly, give me disgusted looks when they find out my goal. They don't understand why I want to bodybuild. Oh well, they are missing out. I have never felt more fit, healthy, and happy than I do when I am working out.
Fox||132.56.180.3||reg|| Z||000011||bikinimom||12-08-2000||03:34 PM||bikinimom@hotmail.com||I would imagine that the reasons would be the same as for the men. Believe it or not some women actually LIKE to be strong. They view their strength to be as much of a part of their femininity as the ability to tenderly caress and console someone who is hurting. I believe that this idea that a woman should be weak and "taken care of" was developed and allowed to flourish by weak and insecure males. I know this sounds flaky, but hang w/me for a moment. Back in the days when the men where hunting large animals for food for their families what where the women doing? Getting their hair and nails done? I don't think they had shit like that when we first started to walk erect. I would think that a male would choose a mate based not on her external beauty but on her ability to bear young and be able to keep said young from being eaten from some other scavanger while foraging for additional nutrition. I think these cave-chicks were probably strong MOFOS. And lets skip ahead to the fronteir babes. Do you guys think these woman were tender shrinking violets? I don't think so! It is only with the prosperity that this country (most industrialized nations) has enjoyed coupled with the fact that technology has made MANY of us (male and female alike)physically weaker that I believe that the "powder-puff" image of beauty had been promoted.
Think about it. If the majority of men (they have testosterone - WE DON'T, unless it is store bought anyway) have progressively become physically weaker, wouldn't it stand to reason that these same men in an effort to preserve their masculinity would proliferate the idea that females should also be weaker?
...just a thought.
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WWW.IMPACT-PHOTOGRAPHY.COM
....beauty knows no pain.||24.4.252.80||reg||
Z||000012||JayeLynn||12-08-2000||03:48 PM||greyvulf@hotmail.com||fundamental cornerstones that guide my entire existence: all of which center around proving 'them' wrong.
I wore braces as a kid, and not on my teeth. My first was fitted at birth: I went through 3 braces during various times through childhood. Consequently, I'm in limitation denial.
My parents were too young and not at all ready for parenthood. I'm still working at proving that I'm socially acceptable...although this one is diminishing. I don't necessarily care if you like me or not. But having a big butt is still a problem.
I'm a perfectionist.
I'm an artist.
I'm very intellectual.
Because I don't believe in limitations and have given up on 'professional' dictum, when my research led me to steroids I took them into consideration just like any other supplement. Putting away all of the social propoganda, I didn't see any difference between AS and say,...protein powders, or vitamin C...or antibiotics for that matter. It's all a matter of manipulating the 'natural' state.
Because I like to play rough, and because I tend to depend upon myself to do the heavy work wherever I am, I have a fondness for strength and size.
Because I'd rather play hockey than watch..
Because I never do anything half-assed..
I've done 2 cycles. I have no regrets whatsoever. ..other than, I resent being put into the position of having to compromise my otherwise lawful existence making informed decisions about my own fucking body. I'm so fed up with all those groups that feel they have to cram me into some mold. ..one of which being the Dr.s who want me to be satisfied just being able to walk! Who gives a shit about the quality of life, eh?! As long as we can just keep you alive, .....
So, back to your question.
If it were me in that picture, all virilized and bulging: it would be because the medical community let me down and I learned to think for myself a long time ago.
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just one humble existentialist caught up in a Machiavellian herd.||129.80.22.140||reg||
Z||000013||Monster||12-08-2000||04:23 PM||monster@musclemail.com||...my personal reason for using? Well, I wasnt born pretty, and dont have a shot at being pretty, so I might as well be BIG!
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It takes two to lie, Marge. One to lie and one to believe it.
Ambition is a poor excuse for not having enough sense to be lazy||24.4.252.150||reg||
Z||000014||jayjay||12-08-2000||07:06 PM||||i remember being very skinny and intimidated the first years I began lifting. I tried one cycle of AS and as the muscles grew and body fat dropped, my confidence was growing as well. I was/am always insecure about my looks. (I feel the same as Monster does, but I'm sure he's a cutie) Creating a physique with strong sexy muscles made me feel attractive, which is really half the battle. I mean, even if you're ugly, you can exude enough confidence to trick some poor sucker into thinking you're all that. ANYWAY.....
After my one and only cycle (to date) I gained a good bit of size and an enormous amount of confidence. I even competed in the Galaxy to prove to myself I was as good as anyone. I did AS because if I didn't, I'd go nuts wondering "what if". The funny thing about AS is people rarely talk about them, and when you do, people thing you are a loser. People will talk about drinking 20 shots of alcohol and puking all night...and how much fun it was, but mention STEROIDS and people will judge you. One woman I train said that she thinks girls who want to look like Chyna from the WWf are stupid because she is too manly...but doesn't think Jennifer Anniston is too skinny! (I think Chyna is badass and I really don't care what the hell she's on) We all know you still have to train like a maniac to look that good, regardless of the gear.
I guess women use steroids for the same reasons as men, to look and feel better about themselves and for some, to push themselves closer towards their personal athletic goals OK at least that's why I do ||205.188.199.183||reg||
Z||000015||riptchick||12-08-2000||07:53 PM||riptchick@operamail.com||Interesting. I guess I would have to ask "Who's asking?" I think that the average bodybuilder, whether male or female, leads a very different lifestyle to begin with in comparison to the average non-gym person. For example, daily gym trips, counting protein grams, keeping training logs etc, etc, etc. is hard enough for most people to understand--let alone the complexities of how great it feels to be in shape.
I get my jollies from getting a great pump, doing well on my diet, achieving a goal. This is personal satisfaction. Gear to me is simply part of a means to an end. Just a single tiny little aspect. Nothing more nothing less. I believe that it is no different in terms of body altering than other medications that do not carry the stigma associated with the derogatory sides or the bad press.
Everyone has a different idea of what beautiful is. For some its just facial beauty, for others its huge boobs etc. For me, I equate beauty with a plethora of traits (both internal and external) and included in my interpretation is strong shapely muscles. ||24.247.48.39||reg||
Z||000016||luv2workout||12-08-2000||10:18 PM||shanshan3@ivillage.com||Now after reading all of these posts, my mind is made up! LOL
GIVE ME SOME GEAR!!!!!!!! ||152.163.205.81||reg||
Z||000017||FitnessChick||12-08-2000||11:06 PM||fitnesschick@hushmail.com||It took a lot of time, thinking, research, & more research for me to take a cross over to the "otherside"...why did I do it..well, Monster summed it up best, but here it goes anyway...
To take my physique to the next level, to give my imperfections a chance to make themselves perfect, to be able to stand next to "them" and be able to hold my own, to feel good, to look good, to give myself an edge, to take my strength to the next level....to be able to take what I worked so hard for & give it a chance to become even better....and because I wanted to do it!||209.236.135.20||reg||
Z||000018||Hardtail||12-09-2000||03:18 PM||||Monster,
I think's you is pretty.... Sure got a good lookin' mind! and the body ain't too shabby either...
Here, Here to the enlightened men, here on this board. You guys are the best!
And to the gals here... Like Arte said... Let's all join the "Dark Side".
||204.60.43.5||reg||
Z||000019||Lthrnk||12-09-2000||05:22 PM||lthrnk@hushmail.com||well I must say Monster your post is great and I to find it interesting readind this board also it opens my mind to others and helps me understand women
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Lifes too short to be small||66.30.162.186||reg||
Z||000020||Hardtail||12-10-2000||08:28 PM||||Hey Lthrnk,
Welcome to the board and I must say, "I like you below me!"||204.60.52.84||reg||
Z||000021||Monster||12-11-2000||07:26 AM||monster@musclemail.com||Another point we cant forget (and it pertains to men AND women) is that a particular countries legal view colors the public view of things.
If steroids were legal, they might be seen in a completly different and softer light. Not to mention the crazy stigma attatched to needles in general in the U.S.
Any injected drug is seen as basically Heroin because its injected.
AAS is seen in the same light as "recreational" drugs, I think...||24.4.252.151||reg||
Z||000022||F1hybrid||12-11-2000||08:48 AM||phatboy@columbus.rr.com||Interesting note about how needles are associated with bad things. I had a conversation with a friend who is a DEA agent yesterday. We were discussing the AAS issue. When I told her that injectable AAS (assuming the gear and works are clean, and proper injection procedures are followed) are far safer from a side-effect perspective than orals, she was surprised.
In fact, I think most educated individuals only know what they are told by the media about AAS and base their opinions on that. When I lecture on the topic and cite peer-reviewed controlled clinical studies showing that steroids are relatively safe, most jaws drop to the floor in disbelief. They then realize that they have been fed misinformation for many years for the sake of political correctness. It usually changes their opinion regarding the AAS laws as well.
Its all about education.
F1||65.24.124.217||reg||
Z||000023||WonderWoman||12-11-2000||02:20 PM||bigxena2000@hushmail.com||Benn out of town for a few days y'all. Glad to be back. You folks never cease to amaze me with your insight and clarity, not to mention intellegence.
Here goes...
First thank you all for your inspiring responses. Makes me wanna go straight to the gym and toss around some HEAVY IRON! As a female in a career feild that is 95% male, I need as much strength as I can muster. Although I have done so 'naturally' for the past 9+ years, as I age the aches and pains begin to add up. My goals are specifically about being able to do my job WELL, barring injury, for my entire career. Suffice it to say there are many in my profession who dont even bother maintaining enough fitness to wipe their own asses after age 50. I digress...What many people fail to realize is that femaleness is about biology and not nails, hair, or husband. As a woman who was born large and strong I would be remiss if I didnot do all that I could to the the best that I am capable of being. That includes mind and body. Are people saying that as a woman I am only allowed to be a certain level of intellect or financial wealth as well? I think not. Someone mentioned the amount of physical sterngth it took to be a woman of the west or of the prehistoric era. Many of our modern women also forget about the women of early farm life and even slaves of early America. Imagine the physical ability it took to work as a feild hand while pregnant, give birth and continue to toil in the feilds? My understanding of history tell me that women over the years had to be strong in order to survive. I find it quite sad that some folks cannot see the greatness in all things, even if they do not agree or aspire to greatness themselves. Being average is easy. to be great takes guts!
I have zero regrets about my foray to "the dark side". I am stronger, faster, fitter, and happier than ever in my life. I wonder how many people who are 'disgusted' by my choices can say the same?
WW||166.93.76.191||reg||
Z||000024||Lthrnk||12-11-2000||04:54 PM||lthrnk@hushmail.com||I've been tring top get you to get on top lets only hope it stays that way
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Lifes too short to be small||66.30.162.186||reg||
Z||000025||Hardtail||12-12-2000||01:04 AM||||Sounds like a perfectly good place to be...||204.60.43.40||reg||