Developed a sinus thing with the first injection of 100mg. Doing 25mg every week since and just did inject #5 yesterday. Sinus thing developed into full blown upper resperatory thing last week and my voice went from 'raspy cold' to 6'4" 240# male ...but that typically happens when I get a sore throat. side? The only other side would be the m-cycle which started in the first week and persisted for 2.5 weeks.
Strength is increasing, but I'm not keeping tabs. I'm trying to let my body dictate rather than the matrix.
(I'm overdue for my 2-week update, but this is what I have from 9/30)
Neck 12 3/4 *up 1/2"
R Bicep 12 3/4 *up 1/4" (flexed)
L Bicep 12 3/4 *up 1/2" (flexed)
R forearm 10 1/4
L forearm 10 1/2 *up 1/2" (suspect)
Shoulders 20 *up 1/4"
Chest 35 1/2 *up 3/4"
Waist 28 1/2 *up 1/2"
Hips 37 1/2 *up 1/2"
High L Quad 23 1/4 *up 1/4
Low L Quad 17 1/4
High R Quad 23 1/2
Low R Quad 17 1/4
R Calf 11 3/4
L Calf 13 1/2 *up 1/4"
Weight:
9/16 : 134.8
9/30 : 140.5
10/17 : 144.7 BF just under 14%
I'm doing morning cardio after each workout for 30-45 min. and my training regamine is 3 days on 1 day off although I have to be flexible. Sometimes I'm still too sore when it comes down to working the muscles again and have to take another day off.
I'm thinking about stacking anavar for the last 4-6 weeks. Anavar really seemed to concentrate in my legs where the deca seems to be hitting my upper body harder. (slow twitch vs. fast twitch?) Also need to bump up my calorie intake as weight gain has leveled off. In all, the cycle is set to run 12 weeks total.
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There is no measure to the benefits of patience and humility ... damn my patience is running thin.
[This message has been edited by JayeLynn (edited October 26, 2000).]||129.80.22.140||reg|| Z||000001||*Ulababe||10-18-2000||05:28 PM||||Thank you JayeLynn this is exactly what I have been looking for.||216.233.172.188||reg|| Z||000002||WarLobo||10-18-2000||05:42 PM||warlobo@operamail.com||Yes indeed, excellent post.
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LAte
Lobo||199.211.225.194||reg||
Z||000003||WarLobo||10-18-2000||06:53 PM||warlobo@operamail.com||Yumm, yah, stack with the anavar
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LAte
Lobo||199.211.225.194||reg||
Z||000004||WonderWoman||10-19-2000||01:14 AM||wonderwoman@thewirehouse.com||Very interesting post. I wonder if EQ results would differ any? Did you say you're doing 25 mg every week and you started with a 100 mg dose? What is the philosophy behind this dosage schedule? I will assume it is about keeping the sides to a minimum? Any one have any idea whats up with the sinus/cold thang? Inquiring minds want to know.
WW||204.131.210.1||reg||
Z||000005||F1hybrid||10-19-2000||10:12 AM||phatboy@columbus.rr.com||JayeLynn:
The initial gain in weight (first 2 weeks) and change in circumferences is water. The water retention can also increase strength. In addition, there are some effects of androgens at the neuromuscular junction as well as central effects that can increase strength early on without causing a functional change at the muscle fiber level.
The actual increase in muscle protein synthesis and the resulting increases in strength due to an increase in contractile proteins takes at least 3-4 weeks to become apparent.
Based on what you said regarding your inability to lift because of soreness tells me you are not allowing nearly enough time for recovery between workouts for a particular bodypart and that will seriously limit your ability to make gains, with or without AAS.
Even when the soreness is gone, there is still damage at the microscopic level and that limits force production (your ability to lift heavy). It generally takes about 2 WEEKS for significant muscle damage to resolve.
For example. If I train a group of clients on heavy legs on a WED. They are usually sore for 3-5 days. By the following WED, even though they are no longer sore, if they tried to move the same weight, they would not be able to. If they try, they usually tell me that everything feels much heavier than last week (there's a reason for that). Thus, we go much lighter. The following week, they hit it hard again and find themselves stronger. Those who insist on pushing hard each week will generally plateau or begin to lose strength in a few weeks then burn out psychologically because of the chronic systemic stress of overtraining.
Remember, the only reason you are in the gym is to get out of the gym. The more time you spend in the gym, the less progress you'll make (to a point). Unfortunately, it takes many lifters a long time to figure this out, some never get it.
Took me about 20 years. Shit, if I knew what I know now when I was 22, along with the fact that AAS were legal then, I would have been f**king huge.
Undulating periodization is the way to go with training these days; juicing or not.
F1
||24.93.126.135||reg||
Z||000006||WarLobo||10-19-2000||10:46 AM||warlobo@operamail.com||"Undulating periodization" now I like the sound of THAT F1.... Damn, this Aura test is kicking in..... where's Glycerine when you need her 
WW, the reason Jaye did 100mg the first week was she mis read the lable and thought she was only doing 50mg. So I suggested that she back off to 25mg. I think she has been very please with the 25mg per week and has held at this dose.
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LAte
Lobo||209.239.227.203||reg|| Z||000007||JayeLynn||10-19-2000||05:53 PM||greyvulf@hotmail.com||also, with the rate at which deca breaks down in the system we figured that I would maintain levels consistently between 75 and 100 mg. Have been pretty happy thus far, but am giving serious considerations to stacking the anavar throught the last half of the cycle for a better overall compliment.
WW - don't know what the deal is with the sinus thing. I'm on the return trip from hades on that one and hear my voice trying to return. We'll see. I have so far managed to avoid the antibiotics.
F1- trust me, I get real cranky when someone tries to make me work sore muscles. It just wont fly. I'm working two bodyparts per session and we alternate emphasis. Like, today was chest/tri's and I hit chest hard. Next time I'll hit the tri's harder and lighten up on the chest some. the 3/1 split is more than I've done in a few years and it's taken some getting used to. It's also adjusted as needed without guilt.
I know that there is a little extra water in the sack, but still see overall structural changes. ...mostly in the shoulders, chest and hips. Training partner/massage therapist says he notices more vascularity.
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There is no measure to the benefits of patience and humility ... damn my patience is running thin.||129.80.22.140||reg||
Z||000008||WonderWoman||10-19-2000||08:56 PM||wonderwoman@thewirehouse.com||Okay, I think I get it. Another question, how does one 'undulate'? Isn't that illegal in most states? Sorry, couldn't resist that one.
F1- Are we doing 1 heavy workout per bodypart per week, and then a light the following week? For example: Squat 5x5 heavy, straight leg deads 5x5 heavy, walking lunges 4x10 each leg heavy, crawl to car, die. The following week squat 3-4x10-12 light, lying ham curls 3-4x10-12 light, walking lunges 3-4x10-12 each leg light, walk to vehicle drive home. The 3rd week, repeat week 1 heavy? Just trying to figure this out sounds like just what the Dr. ordered.
JL- what are you eating? Any other suppliments? I ask because I am planning a 'get huge and strong' cycle for Dec-Feb and I am looking to gain strength, strength, and mo' strength. Did I mention that I'm trying to get stronger? LOL
WW||166.93.76.55||reg||
Z||000009||JayeLynn||10-20-2000||03:07 PM||greyvulf@hotmail.com||Pretty much eating whatever frequently. My problem of late is that I've been eating too low fat/low calorie and have stopped gaining. works better when I eat out often.
Any, the supplements include the following administered 3x per day (with the exception of the vitamin C. If I take it before my morning workout, my intestines turn into a race track.)
Twin Labs Multi-Mineral
Twin Labs Amino Fuel
Twin Labs B-Complex
Twin Labs L-Glutemine
Milk Thistle
A Vitamin Only Complex
(3) 1000mg C
My kid tells me last night that my shoulders are so big that I look like a guy. (she's 12)
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There is no measure to the benefits of patience and humility ... damn my patience is running thin.||129.80.22.140||reg||
Z||000010||JayeLynn||10-20-2000||03:23 PM||greyvulf@hotmail.com||oh, and a post workout dose of TwinLabs Creatine Fuel
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There is no measure to the benefits of patience and humility ... damn my patience is running thin.||129.80.22.140||reg||
Z||000011||WonderWoman||10-21-2000||12:00 AM||wonderwoman@thewirehouse.com||Out of the mouths of babes...
So I'm gonna eat everything in sight come Dec. WOOHOOO!! Can't wait. What's the significance of the creatine when on gear? Doesn't it just cause you more H2O retention? Do you get any benefit strengthwise? I ask because I retain water like the Hoover dam(n) for no reason whatsoever and have been hesitant to use creatine, especially while on, for that reason.
WW||204.131.210.1||reg||
Z||000012||F1hybrid||10-21-2000||12:20 PM||phatboy@columbus.rr.com||WonderWoman:
It's undecanoate that's illegal, not undulate, but if it builds muscle it's probably banned somewhere in America 
The routine you outlined is correct, except that on the heavy days (everyother week), you change the rep/set scheme. For example, instead of 5x5, you might try 9x3, 75-80% 1RM (power sets of triples) with 30s breaks between sets on the core movement like squats, benches, etc. Also alter the rep/set scheme for the other assist. exercises as well. The light days stay the same, generally 3x8-10 and 3-4 exercises for a bodypart. Bottom line, alter the heavy days in subtle ways every two weeks and you will continue to make progress.
Regarding creatine (monohydrate only). Dosing to load is 5g, 4x per day for 3 days, then 5g, 2x per day thereafter. Water retention may occur, but that's NOT the only thing that creatine does. Creatine is taken up in the muscle and carries water with it like glycogen does. Thus, the muscles will appear fuller. However, I've trained a couple of female clients that blew up like a stuffed sausage on creatine. But, until you try it, you won't know. If anything, it should augment your workouts and act synergistically with AAS. The more you lift, the greater the mechanical load on the muscle, the greater the growth. Creatine increases PCr (phosphocreatine in the muscle) and that allows for either faster recovery between sets or an additional rep or two. Again, more mechanical loading. In addition, some recent work in animals suggests that creatine increase satellite cell proliferation. You need these satellite cells for muscle hypertrophy (getting big). They are incorporated into the muscle fiber as new myonuclei to maintain what is known as the myonuclear to cytoplasmic ratio.
While the stuffed sausage look may not be very aesthetic, it may also offer some mechanical advantage in lifting, thus more loading on the muscle. Regardless, if you blow up, stop the creatine and it will pass in 10-14 days, or deal with it and get big.
I recommend creatine, on or off AAS.
F1
||24.93.121.51||reg||
Z||000013||WonderWoman||10-22-2000||06:31 PM||wonderwoman@thewirehouse.com||Excellent explaination. I have had the opportunity to try creatine, and found that it did offer some strength as well as endurance (more reps and weight). I just haven't tried it with gear. Proposing an upcoming Eq cycle for winter. Thinking about adding a bit of creatine to help on the strength end. Was thinking that I may get more bang for my buck if I were to add creatine? Looks as if it's a go, if I can stand to be the Stay-Puft Marshmallow Chick for a couple months.
We'll see.
WW||204.131.210.1||reg||
Z||000014||JayeLynn||10-26-2000||01:28 PM||greyvulf@hotmail.com||I was feeling pretty pumped up (huuuuge) after last nights workout and decided to see if there was any basis or if it was just all in my head. (last night was tri's and chest)
Right Bi stuck out at just over 13 3/4" flexed!
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There is no measure to the benefits of patience and humility ... damn my patience is running thin.||129.80.22.140||reg||
Z||000015||WarLobo||10-30-2000||03:16 PM||warlobo@operamail.com||Don't you just love it when everything works to a tee!
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LAte
Lobo||199.211.225.194||reg|| Z||000016||BLONDBLDR||10-31-2000||03:22 PM||hardcoremuscle@aol.com||jayelynn, ive read all your stats and everything sounds good. question is about sides from deca which you havent discussed. are you having any sides? i mean distinct facial sides. not just hair but changes in the facial structure. I had some with deca like nose getting wider and face looking rather masculine. didnt like it at all. also water retention. let me know if your expierencing anmy of these or anyone for that matter. thanks stay strong!||152.163.204.203||reg|| Z||000017||JayeLynn||11-06-2000||11:50 AM||greyvulf@hotmail.com||Sorry BB - I was out on business in Boston all last week. Sides - none in the face, just the voice. As for water, yup there's been some of that. The worst case was last week on business where I wasn't getting enough water...only got to break for the toilet every 2 hours....poorly balanced meals provided at no additional cost,...etc. I turned into the stay puff marshmellow thing with water retension.
I do have some substantial changes in stats that I promise to get by next monday. My arms have stabilized at 14" (+/- 1/8") and my waist is thicker (not what I was looking for): shoulders have expanded beyond some of my shirts and my lats are really standing out. ...upper traps are impressive too.
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There is no measure to the benefits of patience and humility ... damn my patience is running thin.||129.80.22.140||reg||
Z||000018||Kaizen||11-06-2000||12:32 PM||ka1zen@hushmail.com||Damn girl you were in Boston!!!!
Wish I'd known I'd have shown you the sites and hit my favorite gyms with you!!!
||204.89.159.101||reg|| Z||000019||JayeLynn||11-06-2000||04:11 PM||greyvulf@hotmail.com||DAmned girl. last time I went out of town on business I put out a broadcast here on the boards and no-one really kit on it so I figured that everyone preferred to stay anonymous. ..granted that was KS. I'm sorry, but I do end up in boston periodically and would love to look you up. I certainly would have loved a good workout: I ended up in a neighborhood facility and I was definately the biggest thing there (male or female). ...and the equipment wasn't good.
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There is no measure to the benefits of patience and humility ... damn my patience is running thin.||129.80.22.140||reg||
Z||000020||JayeLynn||11-08-2000||10:58 AM||greyvulf@hotmail.com||topped my goal of 150# yesterday: clocked in at 151.2 this morning following cardio. STILL growing. Surprising since my diet has been irregular....which may be playing to my benefit. Some days I do great with 5 well balanced meals, then I might go for a stretch of 2-3 days of 3 meals. I'm beginning to think that the lean days are causing my body to go into hyper-utilization on my good days. My training partner will do my measurements this saturday and I promise to get them posted on Monday. I am confused at the 2" increase in my waist since I haven't really concentrated on abs at all. Does anyone notice a larger percentage of water retension pooling around the organs??
I have 3 weeks left in this cycle, and I'm ready for a break!
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There is no measure to the benefits of patience and humility ... damn my patience is running thin.||129.80.22.140||reg||
Z||000021||F1hybrid||11-08-2000||03:10 PM||phatboy@columbus.rr.com||JayeLynn:
Three possibilities on the waist increase.
1) sc water
2) Shift in body fat with an increase in visceral and/or abdominal sc fat. Too bad you don't have access to an MRI. It is very likely that you are accumlating some visceral fat since you are now running on an androgen based operating system.
3) Increase in abdominal and/or lower back musculature. Doing any heavy back work, squats, etc.? That will do it.
F1
||65.24.124.217||reg||
Z||000022||MS||11-08-2000||03:18 PM||mad.scientist55@hushmail.com||Androgen-based operating system, ABOS LOL
Don't let Bill Gates hear about it or he'll want to buy it up.
Basically I agree with F1's theories. Androgen use in conjunction with heavy compound movements is a recipe for a thicker middle, both because of changes in fat distribution and increases in supporting musculature. These will probably go away with time after you've stopped the deca. Just build up HUGE shoulders and no one will notice the thicker waist!
||139.80.64.4||reg||
Z||000023||JayeLynn||11-08-2000||03:43 PM||greyvulf@hotmail.com||Thanks.
I didn't figure that it was a fat issue since my boobs are diminishing. My shoulders and back have gotten so big that I've actually started to rethink my goal of 150# at 12%BF. I'm used to feeling like an early model Mustang: now I feel a bit like a Hummer. I'm hoping that losing the water will bring up my spirits.
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There is no measure to the benefits of patience and humility ... damn my patience is running thin.
[This message has been edited by JayeLynn (edited November 08, 2000).]||129.80.22.140||reg||
Z||000024||WarLobo||11-08-2000||05:20 PM||warlobo@operamail.com||Hummers are a fav of mine
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LAte
Lobo||209.239.227.203||reg|| Z||000025||WonderWoman||11-08-2000||08:59 PM||bigxena2000@hushmail.com||I normally feel lika a 1989 Chevy 4x4 SportSide!! With a gas guzzlin' 454 bored and chromed!!
WW||166.93.76.171||reg||
Z||000026||Cocktails||11-09-2000||12:45 AM||||JayeLynn,
I want to be advised of a visit North east, too! Only about an hour and a half from Boston!
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quote:
Rome wasn't built in a day!
||204.60.28.15||reg||
Z||000027||JayeLynn||11-10-2000||10:44 AM||greyvulf@hotmail.com||WW - you do crack me up. I don't remember your stats, but I do remember being impressed with the thoughts of "brick shit house" when you posted your numbers. I can see that I made a poor decision not to post my last trip east. -will do cocktails!
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There is no measure to the benefits of patience and humility ... damn my patience is running thin.||129.80.22.140||reg||
Z||000028||JayeLynn||11-14-2000||10:51 AM||greyvulf@hotmail.com||As advertised, I got my measurements done over the weekend. At the risk of sounding like Bikini Mom, it would appear that the kid did something with them as they have disappeared off my desk (computer game station). Rather than drag this out forever, I'll give you what comes from memory and will get another set of measurements soon.
Neck 13 1/2"
R Bi 13 3/4" flexed
L Bi 13 3/4" flexed
forearms ?
Shoulders 21"
(He did this from the boney prominance in each shoulder - across the back. I don't know if I like this as much as just wrapping all the way around as I suspect that you're really only catching growth in the rear delts and traps)
Waist 29"
Hips 38"
High Quads 23 1/2"
Low Quads ~18"
R Calf grew! ~12 1/2"
L Calf didn't change from last measurement
Gonna go eat now and will fill y'all in on all the other stuff like sides. Oh, the weight dropped back 2# and has been stable at 149.2. Pinch test on my 1-site calipers shows that I'm still around 14-15% BF but the pinch gets smaller through repitition.
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There is no measure to the benefits of patience and humility ... damn my patience is running thin.||129.80.22.140||reg||
Z||000029||JayeLynn||11-14-2000||12:00 PM||greyvulf@hotmail.com||okay, ...the rest of the story.
Anxious to bring this cycle to an end, I did my last two 25mg injections this morning. My nose is still running and I'm on the back side of my second bout with hacking cough. Didn't really come down with a fever this time, or at least when I thought I was, the thermometer registered 96.3. Through the course of the cycle, I woke up nightly between 12 and 2a swimming in sweat ... I'd say from about week two through week ? 7. It happened again last night, but I had gone to sleep in a pj top. I reduced my intended cardio down to 30-45 minutes after each workout and lifted about 5 days out of 7. I just wasn't eating enough to justify any more cardio than that.
One very unusual side was that I had regular (somewhat loose) bowel movements.
My voice is still very low.
I had the mishap of a strained ?Psoas in my left hip and wasn't able to really blow out the legs as much as I would have liked. I had to guard against pushing the injury any further ..thereby ending my cycle altogether. The pain was pretty excruciating for about 5 weeks given that I was traveling on business and my massage therapist went on vacation ! By the time I got some attention, everything between my IT band and the lumbar vertibrae was wrecked.
I snuck in a 2.5 week stack of 5mg anavar. That's when the water retention got heavier and I did get a little volatile. Got some additional strength gains during that time, but don't think it was really worth it.
I'm big and I'm tired.
I think I'm going to get throught the holidays trying to maintain the workout schedule and size (minus the water weight) so that I can get a good feel for what I've gained from the cycle. I have a twelve week cycle of primo waiting for early spring and that will likely be another building cycle.
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There is no measure to the benefits of patience and humility ... damn my patience is running thin.||129.80.22.140||reg||
Z||000030||F1hybrid||11-14-2000||08:53 PM||phatboy@columbus.rr.com||JayeLynn:
If I were betting on this one, I'd bet that you are seriously overtrained and it doesn't have to be that way.
F1||65.24.124.217||reg|| Z||000031||WarLobo||11-14-2000||11:53 PM||warlobo@operamail.com||She just might at that F1. Hell of a go-getter, which can work against us. I'm still trying to find this balance myself. And being "on" does not always help.
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LAte
Lobo||152.163.205.17||reg|| Z||000032||MS||11-15-2000||12:44 AM||mad.scientist55@hushmail.com||Everything about the last few weeks of JayeLynns cycle smells of overtraining to me too. You expect sooooo much out of a cycle and you push yourself daily. You don't want to 'waste' a moment when you're on and so you overdo it, get injured, get sick, but still carry on like a mad woman because you don't want to waste a single microgram of juice. This is NOT a flame, just an observation and some friendly advice to back off the intensity. Heck, take a 2 week break from training and read a good book. Eat what your body tells you and let your injuries heal. Just remember that the muscle you gain is transient, temporary, but the injuries you thrash could be with you for life.||202.180.64.91||reg|| Z||000033||F1hybrid||11-15-2000||06:10 AM||phatboy@columbus.rr.com||Right on MS. If I get the sense that one of my clients is "on", I don't change anything regarding their workouts. Only increase the loads as needed as well as the calories to maintain increased protein synthesis. Recovery stays the same. If you push yourself too hard, you limit the gains you make on a cycle. If you are overtrained while you're on, when you come off, you'll crash even harder.
JayeLynn, I'd recommending backing off for a while you are still on and resolve the overtraining issue or extend your cycle for a few weeks more, perhaps with some oxandrolone. If you are still sick and systemically overtrained when you come off, you'll go into a catabolic tail-spin and risk developing chronic fatigue syndrome and/or suffering a possible tendon rupture (a very negative experience).
F1||65.24.124.217||reg||
Z||000034||JayeLynn||11-15-2000||11:27 AM||greyvulf@hotmail.com||Thanks ...a lot.
I employed a new trainer for this exploit and there came a few changes with the package. In addition to the 3/1 split, it was required that workouts occurred at 5:30 in the morning. ...which meant that I had to be in bed and asleep by 8:30. That happened rarely and I woke up at least twice every night worried about being late. By the second week I was getting pretty upset over the idea of working out because my muscles were still sore. To make matters even more tense, he treated it as if I were just whining. ...I know, I know... just because people call themselves trainers doesn't mean they know there head from a hole in the ground. My personal conflict was that I had made what I saw as little to no progress over the last year and decided that I needed to push the envelope. So push on I did. The 5:30 workouts got easier with time and I even came to appreciate them since I always felt so good by the time I got to work in the morning. It's only been since Boston that I have been getting overly exhausted again. What I wouldn't give for an uninterupted night's sleep.
I did bypass the 5:30 workout this morning and got on the treadmill at home while the kid was in the shower. I'll go back to my lunch-time workouts and shoot for the 3-workouts per week scheme. I gave up hockey for the duration of this cycle and I miss it a bunch. looking forward to getting back into a little accidental checking ..especially now that I have a little more weight to throw around!
I did take some 'before' shots and intend to do the 'after' shots as well. I promise to post them regardless of my own humility.
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There is no measure to the benefits of patience and humility ... damn my patience is running thin.||129.80.22.140||reg||
Z||000035||JayeLynn||11-19-2000||01:43 PM||greyvulf@hotmail.com||found the numbers in the child's room:
Neck 13 1/4
R Bi 14
L Bi 14
R F.Arm 10 7/8
L R.Arm 10 3/4
Shoulders 21 (43 1/2 if measured all the way around)
Chest 37
Waist 29
Hips 37 1/2
High L Quad 24 (measured at the crotch)
High R Quad 24 1/4
Low L Quad 18 5/8 (measured at the bulb of the vastus lateralus)
Low R Quad 18 5/8
R Calf 12 1/4
L Calf 13 1/2
I decided to take Thursday and Friday off as recommended by the folks above. On Monday, I intend to start with a week of light cardio and stretching. Water retention is fluctuating radically (ie, over the course of the day). I think my body is readjusting and the reduced exercise is a shock. I got my first night's unterupted sleep last night following a late night out on the town.
woo hoo!
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There is no measure to the benefits of patience and humility ... damn my patience is running thin.||129.80.22.140||reg||