Now Brotha Monster - you say that my problem may be from an imbalance in my quads? The outer sweep is more developed than the inner (teardrop) - did I get that right? What can I do to rectify this situation?
I thank you for your help. Seriously, this whole "knee thing" has got me wigged.
Also I competed in two shows in May (one week apart). The first was an NPC - The MidAtlantic Natural Classic - I placed second in liteweight 112# at 10%, the second show was ANBC (I'll never do another w/them - they gave overall to an anorexic!) where even though I was leaner 109# at 8% I came in third. In the first show I lost fair and square in the second MANY people felt that I was robbed. Ah well, that which does not destroy us .....
The show I just did the South Jersey BB Champioships (NPC) I didn't come in as lean as I would've liked (combination of the show date being moved up and me fucking-up on diet, plain and simple). Many felt that I should've placed first in liteweight, but truthfully even if I had made it to the posedown there were so many awesome heavies that I would not have stood a chance. Soooooo - back to the drawing board (or gym, if you will) and work like a mofo to insure that the next time I compete - I will win my weight class no ifs, ands, or BUTS!
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Z||000001||Iron God||09-25-2000||10:45 PM||irongod@hushmail.com||BMom,
I had the same problem (had two compound fracturesin my legs) and a broken ankle once apon a time.So I guess doing legs with pain is no mystery to me. I agree with Monster in that imbalance in leg development could cause problems. I don't know you're specific routine. But what helped me alot is wearing flat healed shoes (Wrestling shoes) and making sure that my knees NEVER cross the imaginary line in front of my toes when doing squats or any other leg exercises. PLUS stretching and proper warm-up is key. Take a break from regular leg exercise (leg press, extensions, etc) and focus on varying angles of the squat for a few weeks and see how that works.
Knees are funny and if you’re training includes a lot of cardio plus an intense leg regimen it’s easy to overtrain and injure especially if you’re susceptible to knee pain. (Due to genetics or previous injury)
Do you do stair master? Run?
I know some people are gonna tell you sqauts are the worst if you’re knees are bad. But I feel that there is no more a natural motion than squating and if done properly with warm up and stretching should cause you no problems ..keep the weight reasonable and form PERFECT.. try going with a wide stance toes pointed out. That should put much of the stress on the the glutes and hams.
IG
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Nam Et Ipsa Scientia Potestas Est!||209.236.135.129||reg||
Z||000002||F1hybrid||09-26-2000||09:37 AM||phatboy@columbus.rr.com||Bikinimom:
How often are you training legs? Do you wrap your knees when you work legs?
Legs trained too often, or heavy too frequently will lead to problems, esp. as you get older. Knees coming over the toes will almost always cause knee pain regardless of the exercise. Moving your feet from side to side during open-chain exercises like leg extensions will cause problems. Don't take your leg extensions beyond 90 degrees at the starting position. Keep your toes positioned slightly out when squatting or performing leg presses. Avoid lunges, don't wrap the knees and avoid bouncing at the bottom of movements such as the squat. Watch the type of cardio you do. Running is out.
F1||24.93.126.135||reg|| Z||000003||Kaizen||09-26-2000||11:12 AM||ka1zen@hushmail.com||Bikinimom,
I'm pro pool work for bad knees to replace hard bounding cardio...You can run in the water or swim or tread and get some good cardio going...I'm in the process of doing glucosamine research right now and apparently it is helpful if taken in correct doses and time increments and in conjunction with good condroitin. A DO or Osteo-Arthits specialist could probaaly give you teh right daosing for yourself...too much can cause your joint to be too fluid and you cold blow your knees out and too litle will obviously do nothing. www.consumerlab.com has a write up about glucosamine and chondroitin that they studied to help you pick a good one.
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Kaizen
Omnia Praeclara
tam difficilia
Quam rara sunt
Follow the path of the unsafe, independent thinker. Expose your ideas to danger of controversy. Speak your mind and fear less the label of 'crack pot' than the stigma of conformity." - Thomas J. Watson||204.89.159.101||reg|| Z||000004||Kaizen||09-26-2000||11:24 AM||ka1zen@hushmail.com||Whoops --Posted too soon...
Also building up the inner quad will help with knee problems and warming up slowly and slowly increasing the levels of intensity in your leg workout... Chondromalacia is pretty common among athletes who work the knee joint hard||204.89.159.101||reg|| Z||000005||bikinimom||09-26-2000||07:45 PM||bikinimom@hotmail.com||Thnak you all for the help.
To answer a few questions....
No, I have never wrapped my knees.
No, I do not run. I did do a 5K run last year and swore that I would not do THAT SHIT EVER AGAIN.
I have been doing a boatload of cardio - lots of doubles and all, contest prep. I stopped doing the kickboxing 2/3 weeks b4 competition to avoid injury. Spinning and the stair master have been my torture of choice as of late. I've used the rower on occasion but I find that after 20 min or so my ass gets numb (that sciatic thing).
I currently train each bodypart once a week and hit it hard though after a couple shoots (I still need to stay pretty lean @ 11%) and a lay-off I want to change up my routine - any suggestions?
I am ALWAYS EXTREMELY mindful of the "imaginary line" so my knees NEVER cross it. I do always warm up slowly and carefully - at least 2 to 3 very liteweight sets of 15 - 20 reps. and I always stretch before, during, and after training ESPECIALLY my legs.
And I should be shot.....If you guys saw the stuff I wear on my feet on legs day - Holy Mother of God! You'd all be saying, "You DESERVE the knee problems!" I promise to run out and get me a pair of them there wrastlin' booties.
Thank you all kindly. It's funny how it's so easy to shut your brain off and DAH!...you need people to point stuff out!
What do all the big MOFO experts w/them there amazing tree trunk thighs suggest I do to rectify my current quad imbalance?
I would love to jump into a pool and do some aqua-robics unfortunately I do not currently have access to one. However, I understand that they will be opnening a "Y" close to my home soon. So I intend to take swimming lessons (Don't laugh - I can stay afloat and even get across a pool. I was just never taught properly.) and swim to develop my upper body - so's I can have a REAL "V" 
, and get some killer cardio that won't destroy my joints in the process.
Again, I thank you for all the help.||24.4.252.80||reg|| Z||000006||Monster||09-26-2000||10:17 PM||monster@musclemail.com||The "Y" huh? I'll be eating there this weekend!
But anyway...
Bmom. You said leg presses dont bother you if I remember right. Try using a real light weight and a bunch of different foot positions. (legs wide, narrow, feet straight, turned, ect. ect.) and find the right placement to really feel it in your inner quads.
Everyones legs are a different length, so what hits it for me may not be right for you, but for me. But for me its feet low on the platform, close together, knees in. You cant come down real low like that, but it should help.
But yeah, dont ever wrap you knees. Its a crutch that will end up making things worse. Hell, I dont even use a weight belt. My only consession is lifting straps...
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Z||000007||bikinimom||09-26-2000||10:54 PM||bikinimom@hotmail.com||Ok - I've been told that one can build beautiful legs w/the leg press. I have access to both seated and ALP and you are correct, I've never had a prob w/them. Do ya' think the occasional 100rep set should help?.....Please say NO! Pretty PLEASE....Begging and whining, sooooo unnattractive, but hey, you can't fault a gal fer tryin'! I'll keep shiftin and movin and squigglin' till I gets it rite!
THANX brotha monster! I'm so glad that you and the other board members are taking the time to help me out. (no sarcasm, just honest appreciation) I'll let ya'll know how I do!||24.4.252.80||reg|| Z||000008||bikinimom||09-26-2000||11:06 PM||bikinimom@hotmail.com||Oh yes - and Brotha IG - I never had a problem executing squats, be they front squats or regular old not-breaking-paralell-no-bouncing-at-the-bottom-keep-doing-em-till-you-can't-do-na-more squats.
I have been abusing the stairmaster and spinning like a mofo. I've only got about a week to go to stay lean and then I'll go back to a more normal, "Cardio?...WTF is cardio?" approach. j/k - three times a/week 45 min at a clip will be PLENTY.
I'll still have to eat fairly clean (only visiting the DQ three times a week or so ) as I'm going to try to maintain 14%bf. Will it be possible to still make quality gains at this bf% w/o "help"?...or is this the only way that I can achieve desired results?
You've been very helpful to me, thank you.||24.4.252.80||reg|| Z||000009||WarLobo||09-26-2000||11:51 PM||warlobo@operamail.com||Muscle & Fitness Oct issue as a killer article on leg/foot placement from the book Target Bodybuilding (which is a fricking years worth of reading and learning)
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LAte
Lobo||152.163.213.192||reg|| Z||000010||bikinimom||10-11-2000||09:32 AM||bikinimom@hotmail.com||Just thought I'd give you all an update.
I took the entire week off, pigged out a bit (not too much, though oink, oink!), changed up my routine here's how it goes.
Day 1 - chest, tris
Day 2 - legs, calves
Day 3 - off
Day 4 - back, bis
Day 5 - delts, abs
Day 6 - off
Day 7 - off
Cardio max 3 days in cycle, but more like one or two - (spin and/or kick-boxing). Hell, the only reason I'm doing cardio at all is I want to stay in 14-16% bf range. I got a litlle too fat and happy this summer and it was a mother coming down.
If there are any suggestions on how to improve this.....input is appreciated.
Now, about the knee thing. Just laying off the cardio alone helped me out tremendously! Last nite was legs nite and I supersetted seated leg press w/extensions. I was careful to turn my toes ever-so-slightly outward to emphasize my inner quads, careful NOT to lock out my knees and WHAT A FUCKING SURPRIZE!.....On my sixth set got 10 reps at 100# extensions and 10 reps at 235# on seated press. (I could've gone a bit heavier and gotten out at least 2 more reps on presses but though I was wearing cross-trainers, as opposed to the "stylin' sneaks I USED to wear, there was still enough slippage that I was afraid my feet would slip off the platform on the way up....so, I guess I'll have to break down and get me a pair of them there otomix wrestlin type shoes I've been reading so much about...LOL!) Then walked over to do some dead lifts (sans belt):
90# x 12
110# x 10
135# x 10
All the blood went from my quads to my hams and glutes and I nearly passed out - no joke - so rather than fall off the platform thingie, I walked over to the lying hamstring curl and did 3 sets:
55# x 12,
70# x 10,
80# x 10.
Capped off by 6 sets of calves and I moseyed on out of the gym with my maniacal kids in tow, only running in 10 diffeent directions as they had pity on my sorry ass.
NO KNEE PROBS WHATSOEVER!......thank you all for your input. I shudder to think how my development w/have been further hindered had I COMPLETELY eliminated extensions from my regimen and had the lagging inner quad not been brought to my attention.
THANX A MILLION!
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....beauty knows no pain.||24.4.252.80||reg||
Z||000011||tnheygirl||10-11-2000||09:45 AM||tnheygirl@ziplip.com||B-mom-It's your hams. If they are considerably weaker than you quads it puts extreme pressure on your ligaments under and around you kneecap when exercising. Believe me I know. I am working on my hams just for you and monster!||63.22.111.173||reg||
Z||000012||Iron God||10-11-2000||10:11 AM||irongod@hushmail.com||Did you get the Wrestling shoes????
||192.127.94.7||reg|| Z||000013||bikinimom||10-11-2000||11:23 AM||bikinimom@hotmail.com||Not yet, but I'm gittin' 'em ASAP.
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....beauty knows no pain.||24.4.252.80||reg||
Z||000014||Monster||10-11-2000||09:50 PM||monster@musclemail.com||Three cheers for hamstrings...
Hip Hip...
...ah never mind, Im gonna go sit down.
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Ambition is a poor excuse for not having enough sense to be lazy||24.4.252.128||reg||
Z||000015||bikinimom||10-11-2000||11:20 PM||bikinimom@hotmail.com||yea, yea .....got it chiefs!
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....beauty knows no pain.||24.4.252.80||reg||
Z||000016||WonderWoman||10-14-2000||02:23 PM||wonderwoman@thewirehouse.com||Let's hear it for Bmom...
BTW have you tried the oreo blizzard made with chocolate ice cream and double oreos???
MMMMMMM
Right now I'm having some 95% lean ground beef and 1/2 cup pasta tasty and nutritious. Can't wait to get back to DQ.Just a few more weeks.
WW||166.93.76.203||reg||
Z||000017||bikinimom||10-14-2000||04:26 PM||bikinimom@hotmail.com||Nah Sista WW - I'm a S'mores Galore Parfait kinda girl...tried and true!
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....beauty knows no pain.||24.4.252.80||reg||
Z||000018||bikinimom||11-22-2000||10:11 PM||bikinimom@hotmail.com||I just wanted to give the board an update on my "knee thing". I am happy to report that because of all of the wonderful advice that I have received from the board experts the "knee thing" IS NO LONGER.
True, I will not execute hack squats. But my leg extensions are up from NEVER (could barely complete 12 reps at 50#) to WAY MORE!....NO PAIN WHATSOEVER! Also because I point my toes outward ever so slightly I now for the first time in my life, have inner quads - HOW FUCKING COOL! I have FC and IG hammering my ass with form as well as increasing weight....hopefully I will be able to execute a squat with the explosivw power and ease that FC does and have that nice dense rock hard ghetto bootie someday!....and that outer sweep, AH the outer sweep! And I have not forgotten those hammies, baby - trying to blow those bad boys out right along w/them glutes. The only part of my legs that are decent are my calves. WTF?! I got Popeye forearms and decent calves...but no fucking quads or hams - is that the truest definition of a genetic freak or what?! WELL FUCK THAT!....If I grew me some shoulders (though my side delts need to come out more) and lats and even arms then I'm gonna fucking grow some glutes, quads, and hammies...either that or die trying! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
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....beauty knows no pain.||24.4.252.80||reg||