Most of my clothes are looser, but I can still wear them all. I still look like hell in a bikini. I'm still flabby except for my forearms and lower legs and I'm starting to wonder why I'm killing myself everyday with these workouts and all this protein/carb counting.
I take my measurements and they're pretty much the same, but my clothes are a little looser, so that doesn't make any sense. I can be anywhere from my original weight to about 3 or 4 pounds less, but nothing dramatic. I haven't been able to get below 140 except for one morning, but that was a few weeks ago.
I had visions of losing at least 10 pounds, being firm, looking great in a bikini, buying new clothes, having a photographer take my picture and having at least a shot at winning something. None of those things has happened and I feel like it's unfair because I've put the work in.
Now I'm counting calories and carbs and proteins and discovered that my real carb portion size is not the size of my fist (just over 1 cup), but half that. So, I'm really cutting down on the portion sizes, while trying to maintain a calorie count so that I don't go into starvation mode.
I'm fed up and need you guys to tell me something I don't know yet.
If anybody's got any suggestions, I'd love to hear them.
Thanks,
Lori Buono
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Was the salesman clueless? Productopia has the answers. http://click.egroups.com/1/4633/10/_/_/_/962035225/
------------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
BFLdiscussion-unsubscribe@egroups.com
||163.153.4.71||reg||
Z||000001||Dawn||06-26-2000||03:15 PM||mkayla2000@aol.com||First of all, congratulations on your success so far. Dont give up! As Im sure you have read, you will hit many platueaus in your quest for fat loss. When you reach a point where you dont see any change for a while, increase your cardio and decrease your fat intake a little. This is really common. As for the 10 lb goal...dont focus on pounds so much, just go by how you look and feel. You have to rember that by working out, you are changing your muscle to fat ratio. What do you think about that book? Is it worth the money? ||205.188.197.37||reg||
Z||000002||lbuono||06-26-2000||03:21 PM||lbuono@gw.neric.org||Thanks for your reply.
However, I don't think I can increase my cardio anymore than I am, without quitting my full time job. And as for fat, if I get 10 grams per day, that's a lot.
Let me know how this sounds to you:
3 times per week, I walk/run for 20 minutes, where I do a level 6 for a minute, level seven for a minute, level 8 (jog) for a minute, level 9 (jog) for a minute, then back to level six and so on until 20 minutes are up. It ends with a level 10, which for me, is a little more than a job. I'm just short of gasping for air at that point, so that is definitely my level 10.
3 times per week I do weight training, one week doing 2 upper body and 1 lower and then the next week doing 2 lower body and 1 upper. I lift to failure so that I hit my level 10s for every muscle group.
Also on my weight days, I do 40 minutes of moderate aerobic like rollerblading, stationery bike, stairclimber.
I've also added another 10 minutes of moderate walking to the end of my 20 minutes walk/run.
Does this sound adequate? I hope so, 'cause I can't do more than this.
Thanks,
Lori||163.153.4.71||reg||
Z||000003||bikinimom||06-26-2000||03:21 PM||bikinimom@home.com||I'm sorry but I don't understand your activity level.
...40 min weight workout?
Please be more specific with you workout routine. I've heard of the book and at a brief glance (which is all that I've seen) it would seem the info is somewhat accurate. Cutting you complex carbs as the day progresses, taking in enough fibrous carbs and protein. Are you dirnking lots of water? How many days do you lift and what intensity (are you curling a 5lb dumbbell 10 times and calling it quits?)? How often do you do cardio? As far as calories what are we talking here ridiculous anorexia 500 cal per day or hey I'll burn it off in the gym 5000 cal per day - aren't yams good for me?
You have to be more specific. And don't give up. Rome wasn't built in a day. You'll get there!||24.4.252.72||reg||
Z||000004||masterhunker||06-26-2000||03:36 PM||krise29@yahoo.com||I may have missed something-but what time are you doing your cardio? Do it first thing in the morning-on an empty stomach. I've tried doing it after work-and I'm just too drained-also, I have heard-through this board that this is the best time to do it. I think you must be talking about levels of perceived exertion?!?! If that is the case-level 10 may be a bit drastic. Sounds like you are headed in the right direction though. Let us know how it progresses!||209.84.95.2||reg||
Z||000005||riptchick||06-26-2000||03:41 PM||||I'm guessing that it took more than 11 weeks for you to get where you were when you started. I have a case of "it just ain't happening fast enough" blues every now and then too but persistence pays off in this lifestyle! Just when you think nothing is happening BAM! down in bodyfat %. Like BMom said Rome wasn't built in a day. Keep at it! Also share some more info about diet, training etc for a better eval from the resident experts .||152.163.194.192||reg||
Z||000006||lbuono||06-26-2000||03:47 PM||lbuono@gw.neric.org||More than happy to be more specific, but I didn't think anyone would want that much detail.
The way the program works is that you estimate levels of exertion. For instance, my upper body workout consists of five different muscle groups. For each muscle group, I do six sets of exercise, such as:
Flyes
Set 1: (12 reps at 5 pounds)
Set 2, after 1 minute: (10 reps at 10 pounds)
Set 3, after 1 minute: (8 reps at 15 pounds)
Set 4, after 1 minute: (6 reps at 15 pounds (I can't do more than 15 pounds with flyes yet)
Set 5, after 1 minute: (12 reps at 10 pounds)
Dumbell extensions, laying on back and pressing up, immediately after previous set
Set 6: (12 reps at 20 pounds)
The first set should be a level 5, meaning not very difficult. A five on a scale of 1-10. Set 2 should be a level 6. Set 3 should be a level 7. Set 4 should be a level 8. Set 5 should be a level 9 and this should be at the point where you think you can't do anymore. Then you do level 10 for your last set and you push yourself further than you thought you could go. You shouldn't be able to do another rep.
Then you move onto a different muscle group. The whole workout takes about 45 minutes.
The 20 minute cardio is similarly structured.
I've been working out first thing in the morning on an empty stomach.
Thanks,
Lori||163.153.4.71||reg||
Z||000007||lbuono||06-26-2000||03:52 PM||lbuono@gw.neric.org||Forgot to answer some questions.
Drinking at least a gallon of water a day. Taking in between 1400 and 1600 calories per day. 1400 is my minimum, based on my weight and estimated body fat. I try to get 60% protein and 40% carbs. I'm having Myoplex shakes for my first and last meals. Also taking BetaGen three times per day and 3 Phen Free capsules 30 minutes before any aerobic workout.
I do the 20 minute cardio three mornings per week. I do the 40 minute moderate cardio three times per week, in the afternoon on the days I do weights. And I do weights three times per week also. Either one lower body and two upper body or the other way around, depending on the week.
I want to look good and not jiggle. Please send suggestions.
Thanks,
Lori||163.153.4.71||reg||
Z||000008||bikinimom||06-26-2000||06:29 PM||bikinimom@home.com||So you weight train 3 times per week and do cardio 6 times per week? and you eat between 1400 and 1600 calories per day? In a nutshell is this accurate? Did I also understand correctly that you weight train on an empty stomach or is this just the 3 AM cardio sessions?
Excuse me if I sound like a dope, but I'm sick and the kids are out of school, so I'm dumb as hell.
[This message has been edited by bikinimom (edited June 26, 2000).]||24.4.252.72||reg|| Z||000009||lbuono||06-26-2000||11:02 PM||lbuono@gw.neric.org||Yeah, that's pretty accurate. But three of the cardio workouts are the 20 minute intensity level ones and three are just moderate 40 minute workouts. Those are really just to burn more calories and not necessarily for getting my heart rate really going. ||24.161.59.236||reg|| Z||000010||bikinimom||06-27-2000||12:03 AM||bikinimom@home.com||OK, I got the workout routine. But clarify please - you wieght train on an empty stomach? I get and agree with the AM cardio on empty stomach but what time do you lift? Do you do cardio and then lift and then eat your first meal of the day?||24.4.252.72||reg|| Z||000011||lbuono||06-27-2000||09:37 AM||lbuono@gw.neric.org||Okay, here's the schedule:
All done first thing in the morning on an empty stomach, unless otherwise noted.
Sunday: Upper Body weight workout
(afternoon) 40 min moderate cardio
Monday: 20 miunute intense cardio
Tuesday: Lower Body weight workout
(afternoon) 40 min moderate cardio
Wednesday: 20 minute intense cardio
Thursday: Upper Body weight workout
(afternoon) 40 min moderate cardio
Friday: 20 minute intense cardio
Saturday: Free Day, no workout, eat anything||163.153.4.71||reg|| Z||000012||bikinimom||06-27-2000||02:27 PM||bikinimom@home.com||OK, I'm no personal trainer (yet, anyway) but the way I see it I have NEVER heard of anyone making any gains in muscular development weight training on an empty stomach! Secondly, the cardio thing seems not quite right. What is all of this level stuff? The way I see it a 45min session (3 times per week) where you are perspiring but can still hold a conversation is adequate for fat loss. Third of all taking a whole day to eat whatever you want especially if you are concerned with building/maintaining mass while losing fat might seem a bit much if you see that your gains are too slow. If you are satisfied with your rate of progress, cool. But if you are not - as I've seen it posted before instead of a cheat "day" try a cheat "meal" instead.
The whole program just seems a little too complicated for me. I'm from the old school and I believe simple is good especially is you are relatively new to all of this. I think that too many beginners getted bogged down with the minutest of details and they lose focus and then get discouraged when they do not see results.
DON'T GIVE UP! If you have made it this far, you've made progress. This is all a lifestyle change, not a "quick fix".
My advice is to take the knowledge that you've learned thus far: the importance of eating enough to build and sustain mass, the importance of weight training. Discard the stuff that doesn't work. Think of it as an adjustment - WE ALL DO THIS! Seek out some help from someone who has the type of physique you would most like to emulate - another woman at the gym and ask her to show you a few excersizes or if you can find a competent trainer (SO FEW OUT THERE) and get a few sessions to put you on the right track. Increase the weight resistance training and change the cardio.
It is a continuous learning process, arm yourself with knowldge. Knowledge is power.
I hope this helps. ||24.4.252.72||reg||
Z||000013||JayeLynn||06-27-2000||02:39 PM||greyvulf@hotmail.com||I took this one off line in order to help Lbuono focus. The following is what we did.
In order to get it in the right order, you need to start at the bottom ans work back towards the top.
-----Original Message-----
From: Lori Buono [mailto:lbuono@gw.neric.org]
Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2000 11:20 AM
To: Alynn, Jaye L
Subject: Re: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: diet
Um, what's an illium?
the upper crest of your pelvic gurdle...its the one you can feel just above your leg from the front.
Thanks so much for this. I'm sure it'll help a lot.
Are you saying the body fat scales are off, but usually consistently off? That would be fine with me. Once I determined how "off" it is, I could just adjust each time I weigh myself.
Bingo! That's exactly what I'm saying.
>>> "Alynn, Jaye L" 06/27 1:12 PM >>>
Two recommendations:
have your husband do the measurements so that you can relax your body.
Measure at the following sites:
shoulders: arms relaxed at your sides with the tape positioned at mid delt
chest: put your hands on your hips and have the tape positioned at the
armpits right where your arms join the upper body. If you measure
across the boobs, your accuracy will suffer as weight loss is inevitably
seen in the cup sizes...so that could counter your muscle development
in your pecs.
waist: at the smallest/narrowest point on your trunk
abdomen: at the bellybutton
hips: at the widest point between the illium and hip socket
thigh: at the crotch
calves: at the widest point of the gastrocnemus
These points eliminates errors of not getting at the same site, because
those points don't move.
I hate the bioelectric fat measuring devices because they can be way off.
They do eliminate human error though, so if you can see beyond what can
sometimes be a ridiculous error margin, it will consistently measure you the
same way and it could be used to accurately see change.
I got a little self tester from a group called Accu-Measure. They are on
the web and you can order.
-----Original Message-----
From: Lori Buono [mailto:lbuono@gw.neric.org]
Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2000 10:58 AM
To: Alynn, Jaye L
Subject: Re: RE: RE: RE: RE: diet
I see what you're saying and I'm going to try it, but it just goes against
my natural way of thinking, you know?
---------------------
Trust me, I KNOW!
------------------------
I tried the tape measure method, but I have a really hard time with it. I
never know if I'm measuring the same exact place as last time or how hard I
pulled or didn't pull. A slight change in the way you do it can mean an
extra inch or half inch.
I do want to have my body fat tested, but I can't decide on calipers or
going somewhere to have it tested. What have you heard about those body fat
scales? My husband is interested in getting one, but I've heard mixed
reviews.
Lori
>>> "Alynn, Jaye L" 06/27 12:47 PM >>>
I think youre getting enough protein and carbs: I still think you need more
fat. Before I make any recommendations that you cut your calories, I would
request that you get your BF tested (they do have self testing calipers
...bought one for $20) and check it again after ~2 weeks to see what is
happening. The first year is the most dramatic as this is the time when you
gain the most muscle in a short period of time. How about a tape measure:
got one? ...the kind that you would use for sewing rather than the one you
use for construction work.
About two months ago I supplemented flax into my diet..made no other
changes, so it was added on top of everything else. Within 1 month, I lost
1" off the waist and 3/4" off the hips. Simultaneously, I gained 1/4" in my
biceps and an additional 1" in my chest: I forget how much on the
shoulders....? My point is that increasing fat in my diet and overall
calories targetted my lower body fat and I was THRILLED!
-----Original Message-----
From: Lori Buono [mailto:lbuono@gw.neric.org]
Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2000 10:40 AM
To: Alynn, Jaye L
Subject: Re: RE: RE: RE: diet
I definitely am consuming more on my free day. That's when I have pizza or
tacos or burgers and any snacks I've been longing for all week (chocolate,
ice cream).
During the first part of my twelve weeks, I did notice a loss the next day
or a day after. Lately, I don't and I seem to be getting bigger. My husband
says I look better than when I started, but I know my body and I've gone
nowhere in several weeks.
Based on a max in protein of 204 and a max in carbs of 136, do you think I'm
getting enough of both of those? I admit my fat intake is usually pretty
low, so I hope increasing that a little helps.
What is your website URL?
Lori
>>> "Alynn, Jaye L" 06/27 12:33 PM >>>
I know that it kinda takes the punch out of cheat day, but see if it
involves an increase in calories and then weigh yourself the next day to see
what happens. If you comsume more and don't see any changes on the scale
(or even a loss), then it might be safe to assume that you need to bump your
daily intake up a bit. If you increase your intake and gain, then your
probably at your maintenance intake and need to bump it down for a small
deficite.
Have you read Peter D'Adamo's Eat Right 4 Your Type. I don't take it for
gospel, but find it very interesting.
-----Original Message-----
From: Lori Buono [mailto:lbuono@gw.neric.org]
Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2000 10:27 AM
To: Alynn, Jaye L
Subject: Re: RE: RE: diet
Oops. Those figures for my proteins and carbs were per meal, not per day.
But you probably figured that out already.
My per day figures are:
Protein: maximum 204
Carbs: maximum 136
Fat: maximum 27
This seems to fit with the recommendations you gave me. But maybe I'm just
not getting enough good fats, like you said. I'll try to keep an eye on
that.
Thanks and I'm checking out your site now.
Lori
I'm usually very close to max with the protein and carbs and slightly below
with the fat.
>>> "Alynn, Jaye L" 06/27 12:17 PM >>>
-----Original Message-----
From: Lori Buono [mailto:lbuono@gw.neric.org]
Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2000 9:55 AM
To: Alynn, Jaye L
Subject: Re: RE: diet
Okay, what you're saying makes sense if it's true. What were the good fats
you suggested I have? Can I have nuts? I like nuts, but have refrained from
eating them because of the fat. But I'd have to check the label again. I
think they're mostly good fat. Basically, if it's low in saturated fat, is
it good fat? What percentage of my calories should come from fat per day, do
you think?
*************
The best fats are olive oil, flaxseed oil (otherwise known as linseed), and
fish oil. You get fish oils in tuna, salmon, etc. Olive and Flax oils can
either be poured on a salad or into your protein drink (makes them creamy!)
Stay away from saturated fats and don't heat the oils as that converts them
into saturated fats and undigestible fats.
*****************
Also, about my carbs, I'm having a really hard time keeping them as low as
they are. EVERYTHING has carbs, except chicken and tuna, from what I can
tell. And I worry about this turning into an Atkins-type diet, which I don't
believe is healthy. I want to be sure I'm getting enough fiber.
**********
NOT recommending Atkins.
If you were to consume 1600 calories per day, then I would like to see you
try:
at least 150g of protein
100-125g of carbs
and about 55g of good fats ...all spread out over 5-6 small meals
*say you managed to reliably get 5 meals in per day, then that would look
like
30g protein (1 can of tuna has 32.5g)
33-42g of carbs (2 carbs per saltine cracker, etc.)
and say 10g of fat (1/2 T of oil has 7g of fat, so you would go with that
actually poured on your tuna, or sub some of your carbs for salad green and
pour the oil on the lettuce with some seasonings)
I'm 5'4" and weigh in at 140+/- with roughly 15%BF. My tough spots are
around my hips and ass. I'm 36 with 1 child, and my goal BF is 12% as
anything below that impacts hormone production. Feel free to drop by my web
site to see where I was 2 years ago (at the completion of EAS challenge)
..nine months post lipo.
************
Here's my breakdown:
Protein: maximum 34 grams per day
Carbs: maximum 23 grams per day
Calories: maximum 1600 per day, but usually between 1400 and 1450
About the free day, not sure what you were trying to say. Is it okay to keep
it? I don't think I can do this without it. It's the reason I've been able
to stick to this, because I know there is nothing I can't eat, at the
appropriate time. As soon as I start saying things like, "I can never eat X
again." I feel overwhelmed and different from everyone else and I resent the
program.
***********
By all means, keep your cheat days intact! My only recommendation is to
take note of what you gravitate towards on those days, and how your body
reacts to it. Don't judge; observe. In that way you will learn about what
your body needs and how you might tweek your diet in order to be more
productive.
and most of all BE PATIENT AND CELEBRATE YOUR PROGRESS!
*******************
Thanks so much for your help.
Lori
>>> "Alynn, Jaye L" <06/27 11:39 AM >>>
Okay, I know all about BMR (Basal Metabolic Rate) and what you are doing as
I still have all of the binders with months of diet journalling and
calculations. The numbers I gave you were off the hip based upon my
experience. I'll tell you up front that my degree is in mathematics and I
would be the most guilty when it comes to the ideal that everything can
accurately be described with an equation, but three years of struggling
through it all would suggest that things are a little more complex than the
standard BMR calculations. The activity level classifications that you use
in the AMR (Active Metabolic Rate) ...which is based on the BMR and not well
defined. Plus, your metabolic rate is a dynamic target that fluctuates
under environmental conditions such as hormone balance/ratios, fitness
level, lean mass composition, etc. Given the activity level that you
describe to me, I think that you couldn't do yourself any harm to see how
your body responds by adding 2T of good fats to your diet. I also believe
that your carbs are high for fat loss. ....but I wouldn't want you to
reduce calories. Please note that deficites in calorie intake should only
be partly addressed in reduced consumption: the other half should come from
increased activity levels. You have increased your activity levels, and
restricted the full amount from you daily calorie intake.....a double wammy.
I would argue that you actually have yourself set up for 4# of weight loss
per week. As a result, your body says "STARVING!!!!!" and shuts down your
metabolism to save you in spite of yourself.
For nearly three years, I stuck to a very strict diet and had cheat days.
My favorite cheat food is nachos.....high fat. What I always found was that
where I would expect to have gained weight on the Monday morning scales, I
would reliably be up to 2# lighter. ...three years....What can I say? "I'm
stubborn".
In all of your new experiences, it is important to remember that you need to
change up your dietary intake just like you need to change up your weight
routine in the gym. Your body adapts. It is also very important to realize
that you are reprogramming your body and it WILL resist if you make radical
changes quickly. Your body needs to feel safe that youre not trying to kill
it by reducing fat stores. Too, it takes longer for the skin to shrink than
it takes to lose the fat which may have a role in how much difference you
can/can't see. Flabby skin sucks, but it is part of the process.
-----Original Message-----
From: Lori Buono [mailto:lbuono@gw.neric.org]
Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2000 7:27 AM
To: Alynn, Jaye L
Subject: Re: diet
Thanks for taking the time to write.
I'm just confused about a couple of things. I don't know if you're familiar
with John Hussman's site, but he has a lot of presumably good information on
it. I calculated my BMR (I forget what it stands for.) and came up with a
minimum of 1376 calories per day, based on my body weight, body fat (which I
had to estimate), etc. My maximum caloric intake should be no more than
2339. When I figure in how much fat I'd like to lose per week (1.9 pounds
was given as a maximum), I shows I should have no more than 1600 calories
per day (2339-750 (500 calories per pound of fat)).
So, that's where I got that from. I'm truly not trying to argue with you,
but I would like to know where you get the 1600-1800 figure from. I was
trying to avoid exactly what you're talking about, the starvation thing, and
thought I was.
I should also mention there is one free day per week where you can eat
whatever you want. This serves two purposes: one is to give you a break so
you don't feel deprived and like there are things you can never eat. And the
other reason is to put some fat into your body because we need fat.
Thanks,
Lori
>>> "Alynn, Jaye L" 06/26 4:05 PM >>>
I know what youre talking about on the Body for Life intensity levels and
such. Although I have never done BFL, I did compete in the EAS challenge
...before he came out with this program. My guess is that youre working out
enough, and the solution to your plateau/progress is going to come from
diet. If youre consuming less than 1600-1800 calories, then your plateau
can likely be blamed on lowered metabolism: your body thinks it's being
starved. If youre consuming a high protein, low fat, low carb diet then
youre likely not getting enough fuel (even though the calories may be adding
up to an acceptable range) and again, your metabolism is shutting down. Try
adding 1 T of olive or flax oil twice daily to your intake. You will do
fine at 200 grams of protein per day: no need to do more at this time.
Balance out the remaining calories with carbs and good fats. ....50/50 to
start. If your body is depleted, you should see a change within a couple of
days.
In all fairness, I'm speculating a lot here as not a lot of discussion has
gone into nutrition as a result of your post. I'd be happy to discuss this
further at your request.
-JayeLynn||129.80.22.140||reg||