A||||58||Iron God||Who here thinks they eat enough???||||||
Z||000000||Iron God||06-08-2000||02:47 PM||irongod@hushmail.com||Just out of curiosity and not to rant but I've been lurking around reading past posts and you ladies need to be asking War Lobo questions about your diets because from what I've been reading you eat like a bunch refugees. Diet is number 1 factor in this way of life we call Body Building or fitness and frankly not many you women take in enough QUALITY calories to be making any muscle gains. For a 130 pound women who trains intensely and takes gear 3500 to 4000 calories is the order of the day for muscle gain. My question being does anyone here not counting Fitness Chick actually want to put on any muscle???Or is fat loss the only goal here? And for those advanced lady members that do you really should direct the novice members more towards solid diet and training principles when giving advice, steroids and metabolic accelerators are only 10% of the picture  .IE..........take this hypothetical situation <BR>HI I'm JaneGoodbody I’m 5'6 and 120 20% bf I would like to look to put on more muscle and get TONED(whatever that means) like Monica Brant but don't want to eat more than 1200-1500(psychological thing) calories a day but I will however abuse clentbuterol and thyroid medication without a care plus I can get some Winstrol from my Boy friend can ya help me? thanks!!<BR>Every time I train with fitness chick women aproach and her "WOW!! I would love to look like you do you like not eat and do work out 4 hours a day".If you ladies want to see what 4000 to 5000 calories a day 3 or 4 days of heavy weight training(very limited cardio)a week and a little winstrol equals goes see her picture on chat and conversation forum.And for you novices out there it's time you stop this Jane Fonda bullshit get a clue and get more hardcore!<P><P>------------------<BR>Nam Et Ipsa Scientia Potestas Est!<BR>||192.127.94.7||reg||
Z||000001||WarLobo||06-08-2000||03:02 PM||warlobo@operamail.com||Hehehehe,<P>I'm starting to like you more and more I.G.<P>And we needed the pot stirred up a bit for the weekend too!<P>Ladies.... He has tossed down the gauntlet, anyone going to pick it up?  And needless to say, you may fire at will or rather flame at will...<P>Let the games begin<P>||12.10.120.15||reg||
Z||000002||FitnessChick||06-08-2000||03:07 PM||fitnesschick@hushmail.com||whoa, irongod, those are some strong words....however, ladies he is correct....many woman are misinformed with their diets & training...& the concept of muscle building....many woman are afraid to build muscle for fear of looking manly...however many women dont understand that we, as females, lack the testosterone to build that manly bulk....and short of taking a.s. there isnt a way to put on tons of muscle....however....a woman who eats right, eats enough, & eats frequent healthy high protein meals, and combines that with weight training....properly....gets enough rest, & leads a healthy lifestyle can do wonders for her body....change her appearance....her body composition....that is another thing so many woman dont understand when they say....i want to tone up.....they then proceed to do 5-6 days of cardio a week, dont eat half the amount of calories they should, and are afraid to lift anything more then 10 lb. dumbells....you know what happens then,...they become smaller softer versions of what they are.....anyone look in an aerobics class lately...you know what i am talking about....<P><BR>i will post a pic on this thread of myself prior to a.s. use....it will be of me after 3 years of superintense training & good eating....in other words, giving it my all, 100%....without a.s. use....& i guarentee there will be nothing too big or manly about me....i know now some consider me "too big", although i am actually smaller then most at 5'5 140lbs....its just i am very defined now....but i want that, i took it to the next level with a.s. use....so you can see what natural ---ass- busting in the gym & your diet looks like..<P><BR>sorry irongod got me going....  <IMG SRC="http://www.elitefitness.com/ubb/smile.gif">||209.236.135.156||reg||
Z||000003||Musclicious||06-08-2000||03:20 PM||||okay Iron God here it comes - not all of us on here are novices and many of us are more "hardcore" than even fitness chick. If I ate 4000 calories a day and trained the way I do - I would be huge. Right now I am five foot tall and weigh 120 at about 6%. So dont lump us all into the category of novices into Jane Fonda bullshit. ||204.131.248.193||reg||
Z||000004||FitnessChick||06-08-2000||03:27 PM||fitnesschick@hushmail.com||muscliscious, i dont think he meant any disrespect, its just that there have been woman who have asked me some q,s that were very misinformed....we never doubted that some woman on this board know there stuff, but many are very misinformed....take for example a woman who wants to build muscle on a 1200 cal- per day diet, while doing cardio 5 days a week----its not gonna happen---i got asked that yesterday....so you see where we are coming from||209.236.135.156||reg||
Z||000005||Iron God||06-08-2000||03:52 PM||irongod@hushmail.com||Musclicious, Well I guess that puts you in advanced category I mentioned and as such next time Suzy Newbie comes on here and starts talking crazy smack, your duty will be to give her good solid advice about Diet, training, and lastly "supplementation" and share your experiences so that together we can all stamp out this errant way of thinking thats seem to plague women in this discipline.<P>------------------<BR>Nam Et Ipsa Scientia Potestas Est!<BR>||192.127.94.7||reg||
Z||000006||MS||06-08-2000||04:06 PM||mad.scientist55@hushmail.com||Amen.  I think if you've read enough posts Iron God, that you'll know some of us are constantly trying to get women to train hard and eat right before shovelling down the A/S, clen, T3 or whatever.  But some days it feels like a lost cause.  I believe they're calling it 'dismorphic syndrome' these days, and many women still want to be skinny at all costs.  I also know there's a lot of laziness and impatience (I want it all and I want it now) and maybe that's just a sign of the times.  We don't realistically have much hope of convincing these women to eat MORE (oh god I'll get fatter) and train HEAVIER (oh god I'll get bulky), much less to give it their all for a few years before hitting the drugs (but I'll be OLD and past my prime by then).  So after we've tried to show them the light, if they still insist on using the drugs then they will no doubt use them with or without our input.  Better to give them the info they need to be safe in whatever 'informed' choices they make.<P>Yeah I'm very biased.  I've never used A/S, clen or T3, and I've always eaten like a pig (quantity-wise) and trained my little butt off.  But I daily give advice (and even supply the drugs) to women in my town who do not want to wait until next year to see results!  I try to talk them out of it, but then I see they're gonna take some vet steroids because that's all they can get, and I take pity on them and get them some legit stuff.  So maybe I'm a dealer as bad as the guys who sell coke, crack, etc.... (you know, never touch the stuff myself) but I know for a fact that they're going to take SOMETHING.<P>End of my rant.<P>------------------<BR>The Mad Scientist<BR>||139.80.178.6||reg||
Z||000007||Iron God||06-08-2000||04:09 PM||irongod@hushmail.com||Oh and Musclicious 6% body fat? Please post a pic at 5' and 120 I can MAYBE believe that’s pre-contest but for every day to maintain? For a women very, very difficult to achieve(and even harder to maintain) you must never have a menstrual cycle? No offense but you need to get yourself new calipers or go for submersion displacement test.<P>------------------<BR>Nam Et Ipsa Scientia Potestas Est!<BR><p>[This message has been edited by Iron God (edited June 08, 2000).]||192.127.94.7||reg||
Z||000008||Iron God||06-08-2000||04:18 PM||irongod@hushmail.com||MS,<BR>  I know it sucks not being able to get this through some of these womens thick skulls but truth is truth and if we even make one women drop that whole fucked up way of thinking this board will have served it's purpose.<P>------------------<BR>Nam Et Ipsa Scientia Potestas Est!<BR>||192.127.94.7||reg||
Z||000009||Musclicious||06-08-2000||04:28 PM||||Iron God - yes my bodyfat percentage is precontest - I have a show this Saturday. It is not that low year round. And it is 6 percent.......whats yours?????||204.131.248.193||reg||
Z||000010||Iron God||06-08-2000||05:19 PM||irongod@hushmail.com||I'm 5'10 257 at 16% BF +/- 1% I guess I would call this my bulk phase as I will forgo the cut down summertime ritual this year.<P>------------------<BR>Nam Et Ipsa Scientia Potestas Est!<BR>||209.236.135.189||reg||
Z||000011||skydancer||06-08-2000||06:28 PM||skydancer11@ivillage.com||okay heres mine...let me know what you think.  I'm 5'6", 144lbs and I don't know my bf but it was 22% 2yrs ago and that was before I started lifting. (I know I need to get a current bf - I'm working on it!)  I'm not competing, don't plan too but I love being strong and love the results I get from good, hard core training.  I eat about 1900cal, 200g protein, 150-200g carb (quality carbs - no junk) 40-50g fat.  I feel good, sleep good, train hard on this diet.  Cuts are coming through and I'm able to do more and more...scale is pretty much staying the same so that tells me I'm losing fat, gaining muscle.  I train 4x a week (splits) for an hour, cardio 3x a week 45-60m.  What do you think?  It feels good to me...I'm not hungry, no munchies, no cravings...any improvement/suggestions?  Oh I do take 2 ripped fuel capsules in the am before my sunrise workout (I can't handle anymore than that) and flax seed oil.  I'm looking for a good multi vit/min (LOBO) but having trouble finding one with no iodine.<P>FC you look fabulous...I'd love to workout with you anytime!  I don't think you are too big at all.<p>[This message has been edited by skydancer (edited June 08, 2000).]||209.179.204.85||reg||
Z||000012||JayeLynn||06-08-2000||11:31 PM||greyvulf@hotmail.com||Iron-person: You have a valid point with the increasing number of barbies who don't eat, but 3500 - 4000 cal/day?!  ...maybe I'm just not doing enough gear.  2000 - 2500 of good clean protein/fat/carbs makes me positively huge (in my own mind)  ...but seriously, if I manage another 10# of muscle on this little frame I'll be just so full of myself I'll be unbareable. <IMG SRC="http://www.elitefitness.com/ubb/smile.gif">  The trend you want to change is a long standing, deeply engraned mindset.  Walk on over to 'chat' and contemplate on the "fat fuk" and "fat cunt" comments all over that board.  Tell me where the problem solving starts.  I have yet to see one of those girls post anything outrageous and not receive the diplomatic and professional response that your looking for.  But, we all learn from our mistakes.  You cannot stop someone from doing what they intend to do with or without you.  By offering tolerence and expressing truths gently, we might be able to soften the edges.  I personally am thrilled with the expertise on this board. <P>Look around and know that each of us (boys and girls) is where we are both because of and in spite of those social dictations/perceptions.  Those girls are just looking to 'fit in'. <P>------------------<BR>Feel Free to Underestimate me ;)||63.225.240.64||reg||
Z||000013||dirtyratt||06-09-2000||12:33 AM||twodirtyrats@hotmail.com||Iorn God-  i can see where you are coming from, but being a new member i thought this board was for help, support, and maybe a little motivation.  Insults like we are dumb and fonda's make women less likely to return to the board and/or feel stupid when they post questions or concerns.  maybe i am crazy, but i feel you feel hatred towards those less educated then you in your message.  your here to help remember.....<P>          dirtyratt<p>[This message has been edited by dirtyratt (edited June 09, 2000).]||63.208.201.235||reg||
Z||000014||Dlady27||06-09-2000||08:39 AM||giggyeyes@yahoo.com||IronGod!  If in fact Ms. Jane Goodbody is directed towards me... thanks!<BR>(instead of saying f--k U.) You are like my bf now,(being a sarcastic ass!) you just gave me more incentive to work twice as hard at improving my body and prove you and the bf wrong!! I went and joined the gym today and I told the trainer to make me a program to follow using the free weights and such there, along with a proper diet. I am just starting this, at 27. Not everyone can look like FC overnight so I think its best for you to try and motivate us, not put us down.<BR>Not to mention that some women like to be able to say, "I got this way all natural", not by the use of gear like FC either. Remember she said herself, she'd lose her job if they knew she did gear, cause then everyone would know she didn't do it the NATURAL way!!! <BR>I thought that this was a board for help and information to inform us "fonda's" of the stuff we don't know about becoming fit & muscular, obviously I was wrong for asking either of you for advice or help for that matter. If all I wanted was to be screamed at, made fun of, and put down I would have went to my asshole bf and asked him for <BR>f--ing advice!<BR><p>[This message has been edited by Dlady27 (edited June 09, 2000).]||208.205.113.135||reg||
Z||000015||skydancer||06-09-2000||09:12 AM||skydancer11@ivillage.com||Hey ladies...while IG's words were harsh his point should be well taken.  Too often women try to starve themselves into shape, you know.  I've been there, done that.  We all have different goals here and are all trying to find the healthiest way to do that.  Lets support eachother in doing that.<P>JayeLynn - I have to say I agree with you...either the guys are calling us fat bitches or they are complaining that we "look too sexy in the gym and are f-ing distracting them by having a nice ass".  I wish they would make up their goddamn minds!||207.114.143.108||reg||
Z||000016||Iron God||06-09-2000||10:26 AM||irongod@hushmail.com||OK lets me rebute these one at a time...<BR>......<B>Muclicious</B>---Goodluck in your show and I would still like a picture minus any distinguishing features of course..<BR>....<B>Skydancer</B>...Sounds like a solid routine for for u.How much water are you taking in? also do you have any hi-calorie cheat days?and as for men and those comments, any man who would make a comment like that to a women is not worth is own salt and should be dealt with accordingly......<B>Jayelynn[b]Try the the Hi-cal thing for 2 to 4 weeks, yes intially you may retain some water and gain some fat but once your metabolism kicks all will be well then drop back down to your regular diet try cycling your diet like that for 6 to 8 months (2 to 4 weeks on 2 to 4 weeks off) if you want more specifics let me know....[b]Dirtyrat</B> those comments were not directed to the new people or those seeking advice (for those people my patience<BR>is inifinite) but directed towards people who get the facts by people who have gone this road.and choose to ignore them because of some emotional or self-percieved mental block so if you come to this board asking for advice don't waste peoples time if your going to ignore it.I personally take this shit very seriously and many of you do too, so when someone comes here and asks for help and we give it to them and they ingnore it or come to some bullshit conclusion not based fact well that is an insult to what we are about.. better off without those people.......<B>Dlady</B>-no Miss Jane Goodbody was a hypothetical reference but if the shoe fits......I am truly honored that I can serve as your inspiration and I'm not being sacastic if my words inspired you even if it was in anger and taking a hard line approach got you to join a gym and take the next step than mission accomplished.And in no way was my point ever to insult or put  you or anyone else down and I'm not comparing anyone to anyone. Only you now, to what you can be. Also don't be doing this for some asshole boyfriend or somebody you've never seen, do it for yourself you'll be much happier in the end,but now I will be taking a keen interest in your progress my advise and Fitness Chick's if you want it is at your disposal, all I ask is that you heed it.<P>------------------<BR>Nam Et Ipsa Scientia Potestas Est!<BR>||192.127.94.7||reg||
Z||000017||FitnessChick||06-09-2000||10:30 AM||fitnesschick@hushmail.com||DLady, I dont think it was directed solely at you, but the mass amounts of misinformed woman, not even just on this board....but in gyms, malls , etc....the point is they are everywhere....the bottom lie is that women are afraid to eat---no offense to you or your problem---that is a serious issue & i give you credit to deal with it---its not an easy thing to do, but you have taken the first step---admitting you have aproblem----however, you need to take it further, 7 seek out professional help---something like that isnt easy to conquer alone----& you still are not eating enough to change anything...your meals are being burned off by 5 days of cardio & weight training + daily activities---like breathing, walking around, functioning-----you need to eat more, you need to eat more quality varied meals, & you need to eat dinner....your body is catabolizing( burning) whatever muscle you are trying to build at 1100-1200 calories a day....i dont think irongod is trying to be mean, just realistic---& he is trying to open some eyes to see that this is an ever growing problem in our society.....& something needs to be done about it....we are all here to support one another---this board is like a family....  <IMG SRC="http://www.elitefitness.com/ubb/smile.gif">||209.236.135.199||reg||
Z||000018||FitnessChick||06-09-2000||10:36 AM||fitnesschick@hushmail.com||ps...as far as me & my a.s. use..... I maximized my bodys potential....i busted my ass 5 days a week with  good clean eating & intense man like training for almost 4 years b4 i decided that i wanted to take it to the next level.....i wanted more....many woman only do it to get in shape & feel good about themselves...well that was me, but i also chose to make it a lifestyle & makle a living from my body....with modeling & eventually competing, and i needed & wanted the a.s. to take me to that next level....i know how hard it is doing it naturally...i did it for years....so i respect natural athletes 100%....||209.236.135.199||reg||
Z||000019||Dlady27||06-09-2000||10:44 AM||giggyeyes@yahoo.com||I am going to continue to do my cardio over the weekend in this HEAT, and on Monday I will start the gym training, and see what type of diet the pt designs for me. Along with following it! <BR>( For they already have my stats from 11/99.)<BR>Which I might add I lost some bf% since then cause it was 27.9% in November & now it is 20%. <BR>I am doing this for NO ONE but myself! I know now there is no Miracle Pill, the only way I am going to achieve my goals is to keep thinking positively. <BR>The "shoe" does'nt completely fit either cause I do NOT use gear, I want to do this without destroying myself anymore. Once I get the proper diet I know I will consume more calories,carbs, protein, etc. I have to do it to get to my goal!<BR>And you can't "down" me for saying what I said about Monica Brant, I'm sure when you started out YOU had a role model too!<BR>Like I said I won't bother to ask you for help again cause the "first impression" is it. ||208.205.113.135||reg||
Z||000020||FitnessChick||06-09-2000||10:49 AM||fitnesschick@hushmail.com||what did you say about monica brant....& who wont you ask for help anymore||209.236.135.199||reg||
Z||000021||FitnessChick||06-09-2000||10:51 AM||fitnesschick@hushmail.com||and DLady, kudos for having the excellent plan & mindframe of following the trainers diet plan....that is your best decision yet....just please stick with it....we all want to see you suceed....noone here on this board wants to see another fellow ELITIST fail....let us know what your results are as you progress...||209.236.135.199||reg||
Z||000022||skydancer||06-09-2000||11:25 AM||skydancer11@ivillage.com||IG - usually at least 6 liters of water a day.  I'm a thirsty gal!!  <IMG SRC="http://www.elitefitness.com/ubb/smile.gif">  I occassionally have a cheat day...coming from a background of binge/starve though, using a cheat day was how I got myself out of that cycle.  Now I find that if I PLAN a cheat day I go way overboard and feel like crud.  So if I go out to eat or theres a bday cake or I just have a craving for my killer homemade choc chip cookies, I'll say thats my "cheat".  But honestly, since I've upped the protein my desire for the sweets has dissappered.  I NEVER EVER thought that would happen to me.<P>And yes, those men making those comments are to be ignored.  Or maybe smacked a good one??  <IMG SRC="http://www.elitefitness.com/ubb/smile.gif">||216.244.31.78||reg||
Z||000023||FitnessChick||06-09-2000||11:39 AM||fitnesschick@hushmail.com||hey skydancer....your approach to cheat is mine...if its there & i want it i will do it.....& if i am good for the whole week, i will plan a cheat....glad to hear you set yourself straight off the starve scenario....you should be an example for DLady to follow  <IMG SRC="http://www.elitefitness.com/ubb/smile.gif">||209.236.135.199||reg||
Z||000024||skydancer||06-09-2000||11:46 AM||skydancer11@ivillage.com||have patience...its a mindset that took me years to get out of...but wow is it paying off now!!||216.244.31.78||reg||
Z||000025||Iron God||06-09-2000||01:44 PM||irongod@hushmail.com||Dlady,<P>   So what your saying is you will follow the advice of a PT no questions asked? But will ingnore the advice of the people here some of which (myself included) are also certified PT's (I actually got kicked out of a gym for training some clients gratis,but thats another story)<P>------------------<BR>Nam Et Ipsa Scientia Potestas Est!<BR>||192.127.94.7||reg||
Z||000026||Dlady27||06-09-2000||02:07 PM||giggyeyes@yahoo.com||No. I am saying I will have questions for the PT as I go along I am sure. As for the advice thing, no I will not ask YOU for advice, so don't waste your time on me.<BR>You come off like you are this ALMIGHTY GOD OF MUSCLE in the WRONG WAY to me. I don't care for those who think they can belittle and talk down to me. <BR>When all I asked for was some advice. I never said I wasn't going to take the advice you gave me to begin with, you assumed that one on your own! <BR> I am NOT posting any questions on here, I will look elsewhere for my advice on fitness and dieting.  Maybe once I am as knowledgeable as YOU ~ the IRONGOD, then I can ask a question here. <BR>You didn't impress me what-so-ever with the first comment you made, so just forget it and HELP the ones that want YOUR help.<BR>End of subject. That's All She Wrote!<BR> Let It Go.||208.205.113.135||reg||
Z||000027||MS||06-09-2000||04:15 PM||mad.scientist55@hushmail.com||Congratulations Dlady.  Intent is the first and most important step in making the changes you want, happen.  I'm truly sorry that you you took offence with this board.  However, I would hope that all visitors to this board might take the advice their given with a grain of salt, and solicit lots of other advice from other sources as well.  This includes P.T.'s at your gym (just make sure they come HIGHLY recommended) who are actually in the best position to help you.  They can monitor your progress 'in the flesh' so to speak, and change things when they need changing (something you may not always be able to see for yourself).<P>I don't know who you are, 'cause I've never seen a topic post from you before asking for advice, so I can assure you I wasn't referring to you in anything I said.  I was referring to the majority of women (which you have just proved you are not) who just want confirmation that what their doing is the right thing.  They don't actually want advice if it means changing what they have already decided to do.  These are the women who make Personal Training such a heartbreak for me and other people in the industry.  I feel bad taking their money, but feel it's my responsibility to at least try just in case there's someone like you in the gym who IS willing to change.  <P>I wish you the best of progress, and am sad we won't be seeing your 'face' on this board again.<P>Peace<BR><P>------------------<BR>The Mad Scientist<BR>||139.80.178.6||reg||
Z||000028||FitnessChick||06-09-2000||05:11 PM||fitnesschick@hushmail.com||WOW...too much test on a womens discussion board....everyone is here to help out....you really should lighten up a little....  <IMG SRC="http://www.elitefitness.com/ubb/smile.gif"> no offense was ever meant, & he restated that several times....but if you are done then i guess that nothing can be done, so sorry to lose you ....hope you do okay without us...||209.236.134.172||reg||
Z||000029||skydancer||06-09-2000||05:24 PM||skydancer11@ivillage.com||see what happens when women start lifting...hee hee...all that test gets fired up and we start acting like "the other side"...(just kidding guys!)||209.179.206.234||reg||
Z||000030||JayeLynn||06-09-2000||07:09 PM||greyvulf@hotmail.com||Okay, so now that we have flamed (more like a welding torch!) the metalic deity, I'm gonna say something in his defense.<P>For the last three years I've worked my ass off both in the gym and in the books.  I've researched lifting routines ....kept pace with all the boys ....know all the fads when it comes to diets; have calculated my BMR; executed 200-500 cal deficites (as if you could ever really know); journalled my protein/carb/fat ratios for months at a time; altered my ratios.....I've been there and back.  Yet for the last year I've been stagnant: no weight loss; no appreciable gain in definition; no substantial gain in strength (at least until I incorporated my first cycle)....FOR THE LAST YEAR.  <P>A little over a week ago I finally supplemented some flax seed oil to my high protein/low carb/low fat diet and HOLY SHIT!<BR>I've gone from 15.5% to somewhere around 14% BF as of Wednesday.  Yesterday I noted a 1/2" loss around my waist and over 1" from the hips!  Today I noted another half pound loss since Wednesday. <P>So there you have it.  Even with the best efforts and the best of intensions....My ratios weren't right or I just wasn't eating enough, and my metabolism was shutting down.<P>Pride is a big thing in the fitness industry and I got more than my share of calcium deposites between the ears. <P>------------------<BR>Feel Free to Underestimate me ;)||129.80.22.140||reg||
Z||000032||Iron God||06-09-2000||09:30 PM||irongod@hushmail.com||JayeLynn,<BR> Thanks for the boost, Flax seed oil is an excellent source of High quality fat I'll add 2 to 3tbs of mct oil a day when dieting just to keep my strength and energy up. It actually helps me keep a lot of muscle on my frame when dieting by giving me the all important calorie cushion.<P>P.S. go check out FC’s before and after pictures on the Anabolic board I’m really proud of how far she has come..<BR><P>------------------<BR><I>Nam Et Ipsa Scientia Potestas Est!</I><P>||209.236.135.195||reg||
Z||000033||FitnessChick||06-09-2000||11:41 PM||fitnesschick@hushmail.com||Jaye Lynn....nice to hear someone who understands what we are saying...diet is such a delicate balance.....Science is key here...people think we make this crap up to hear ourselves talk....they dont understand it is fact... science & fact dont lie....<P><BR>and I am truely glad to hear you are making progress....we honestly like to hear success stories  <IMG SRC="http://www.elitefitness.com/ubb/smile.gif">||209.236.135.220||reg||
Z||000034||WonderWoman||06-10-2000||07:33 PM||wonderwoman@thewirehouse.com||Wow!! I take a break for a bit and ya'll go hog wild!! All points well taken folks. Yes muscle growth requires calories, and fat loss requires a systematic reduction in calories. I got it. To be fit I must combine all components of the lifestyle i.e. progressive resistance training (weights), plenty of h2o, proper amounts of clean foods with the selected cheat option, cardio in amounts that compliment my goals, etc. Thanks to all for the friendly reminder. In the future I will make more of an effort to exhaust all diet/training options before suggesting anyone use 'suppliments'. I think most of us relate in that manner anyway. As someone who's quest is strong/huge/ripped, I can only hope that one day it will be a bit less challenging to walk around as a woman who can crush the majority of people she meets. Onward and upward ya'll,<BR>WW||166.93.76.168||reg||
Z||000035||Steelsoldier||06-11-2000||01:13 PM||||Dlady27 sounds to me like a waste of advice someone pulled her card(IRONGOD)and she turned her insecruity and lack of self-esteem into anger toward the irongod. Who said the irongod was talking about you. You are very misinformed and good luck trying to make any quality gains ! Your pride is ultimately going to stop you from reaching your goals,Next time irongod offers advice he will sugar coat it for you the weak people so the hard truth is easier to digest!! No flame intended but i wish someone took the time to give me advice when i was just starting out it would have saved me months of wasted time and effort.<P>------------------<BR>"The more you sweat in training the less you bleed in battle"<BR>||209.236.135.214||reg||
Z||000036||SassyS||06-11-2000||02:01 PM||||Alright.. for what its worth.. Ill join in on this one.  FC, you have a fantastic body, and I personally think it's wonderful that your boyfriend thinks so too!  Yet, I have found in my personal experiences that looks and "fitness" are subjective (like so much else in life).  FC knows her shit, and has worked hard for many years to reach her goal.  Still there are other women who's goal it is to lose 5lbs.  If they achieve it, good for them!  Other people want to be marathon runners or rock climbers.  Why pigeonhole the physical ideal?  Female powerlifters aren't nearly as lean and vascular as BB's.  Are they not as healthy?  Hmm.. I think if you put a fitness supermodel in a room with a hardcore powerlifter,  and an Ironman competitor, they would have different goals, ideals and diets.  Even though Im not fond of Hanoi Jane, I bet she could aerobicize Bev Francis into the ground.  But then again Bev could have lifted Jane with one arm. ||207.86.230.76||reg||
Z||000037||mightydog||06-11-2000||03:09 PM||mlamb90839@aol.com||From my observation the elite fitness types should not borrow the spearhead of the media which leans toward lowering the weight of your average American heifer. A calorie increase of couse would not be recommended by the masses cuz most are lazy slobs anyway. Extreme lifting + extreme calories =Elite fitness.||205.188.192.53||reg||
Z||000038||FitnessChick||06-11-2000||04:26 PM||fitnesschick@hushmail.com||sassys...if what you are saying is maybe her goal was not to put on muscle....actually i must inform you that in a previous post she asked me how to do just that....however, when she told me what she was doing & that it was more or less she had not the ability to change her diet, i told her those gains wouldnt happen...i  believe that is why she felt this post was directed specifically at her....yet we settled her Q on another post...this was directed at everyone.... just wanted to clarify that   <IMG SRC="http://www.elitefitness.com/ubb/smile.gif">||209.236.135.196||reg||
Z||000039||Dlady27||06-13-2000||09:16 AM||giggyeyes@yahoo.com||This is for everyone that read the previous posts... I went to the gym at 5:15AM, met with a trainer and had a Body Composition done. Back in November of '99 my bf% was at 27.9%, (yuck) Well, I am proud to say that it is now down to 15.1%bf.  My fat weight is 20 lbs. Lean weight is 111 lbs.  Total body water is at 62%. He gave me these exercises to do, with  heavy weights, low reps. <P>Preacher curls, Pulley pushdowns, shrugs,cable crossovers, standing dumbbell side laterals, dumbbell front raise, bent laterals, leg press, leg extensions, and some abdominal and oblique exercises. Also, some back machines, and exercises too.<BR>There are a few others but I can't remember them, I am now eating around 1,700 to 1,900 calories a day. (I have to start that slow)<P>So, I know I can do this! I have the determination to change my body! Just wanted to let all of you know this.<p>[This message has been edited by Dlady27 (edited June 13, 2000).]||208.205.113.135||reg||
Z||000040||SassyS||06-13-2000||09:59 AM||||Good for you, Dlady!  Keep up the good work!||207.86.230.98||reg||
Z||000041||WarLobo||06-13-2000||12:03 PM||warlobo@operamail.com||Well well well, I must say I rather like this intense debate.  Very healthy in my opinion.<P>In any physical endeavor, be it BBing, fitness, mountain climbing or synchronized swimming, often requires far more mental discipline and emotional stamina than doing the actual event.  If you read the boards you will find many posts describing disappointing results and folks of all types very upset with how progress has been going.  Which often follows dramatic gains (or losses as the case may be).  This roller coaster is just a part of the overall way of life when you try to "buck mother nature."  Most every female on this board can count the number lifting years on one hand - and you all are in the top 2% (or some ridiculously low percentage).   Lifting is a life style - it has to be.  Can't be successful any other way.  Just know that you will go through many ups and downs, be ready for it and do not let the down times overwhelm and sink your desire.   Also do not let your successes lead you down the path of continuous high expectations - you will fall off this cliff and it ain't fun.<P>It's a very difficult thing we do.  A system of training that works well in the beginning will in almost every case not work as one progresses.  As you continue to improve, the shit gets EXPONENTIALLY more difficult.  And that's the best case mathematical explanation I can give!<P>I really don't care if ya all do not like what someone has to say - even if they might be incorrect.  I don't care if ya all don't agree.  (as if we all would agree on anything)  What I do EXPECT is that you contribute and debate the points.  And that, I think is the true benefit of this board, and I'll be damned if there is another board out there that is better at providing this environment from the women's point of view. <BR>Some old school training methods are tried and true - and should be learned.  But that does not mean we can't improve on them, or even come up with some NEW ways of doing things.  That is the way of progress - as it should be.  It's not easy, often not fun, and can even be down right painful inside.  Sometimes I think about some of the most stupid "training" techniques I tried and just shake my head. Ah well, water under the bridge.  But I kep hanging in there and that is the true meaning of sucess in my book.<P>Late<P>Lobo<BR>||12.10.120.15||reg||
Z||000042||FitnessChick||06-13-2000||12:09 PM||fitnesschick@hushmail.com||Warlobo, I love hearing your expertise on any subject.....||209.236.135.195||reg||
Z||000043||Dlady27||06-13-2000||12:54 PM||giggyeyes@yahoo.com||Warlobo, I have No idea what all that meant but, if you were pointing out that this is 1/2 mental and 1/2 body exercise, then yes, I got that part. I am not the "pro BB" and never will be. Some of the subjects that are discussed here I just do not understand what so ever. guess that is why i come here to ask Questions....||208.205.113.135||reg||
Z||000044||MS||06-13-2000||03:37 PM||mad.scientist55@hushmail.com||Please keep asking.  <P>Sounds like you've got yourself a good trainer.  Keep up the momentum and you'll be at your goal in no time.  15%bf from 27% is FANTASTIC by anyone's standards.||139.80.178.6||reg||
Z||000045||Dlady27||06-13-2000||04:03 PM||giggyeyes@yahoo.com||Thank you All! ||208.205.113.135||reg||
Z||000046||Texas Guns||06-13-2000||05:00 PM||texas_guns@hotmail.com||I got into the bad shape I am in now because I did not eat enough while I was busting my tail!! Everthing pretty much shut down.  Now I am facing the consequences.  I really think the best way to go is how FitnessChick did it.  Eat as clean and natural as you can, bust it in the gym, do your cardio, and when you have reached that level, then maybe think about introducing other "aides".  That's the approach I am taking from here on out.  I have to get my body back to normal, get my thyroid levels back to actually functioning, and go from there.  Jumping the gun is definitely not worth the setbacks.<P>Mrs. TG||209.39.225.149||reg||
Z||000047||FitnessChick||06-13-2000||05:22 PM||fitnesschick@hushmail.com||thanks, i personally feel i took a very healthy and healthy minded approach to it...||209.236.133.238||reg||
Z||000048||Texas Guns||06-13-2000||05:41 PM||texas_guns@hotmail.com||WarLobo once posted about true success taking time.  We women are way too impatient when it comes to getting where we want to be.  It has taken me years of healthy living and working out to get where I was 2 years ago and once I laid off, got lazy and fat, I tried to get results fast.  Wrong thing to do.  <P>Fitnesschick, when are you going to post more pics??? Very inspiring.  I'm sure the guys can say the same.  hahaha||209.39.225.149||reg||
Z||000049||FitnessChick||06-13-2000||08:42 PM||fitnesschick@hushmail.com||hey texas guns, i have been taking so much b.s. from the guys on the anabolic & chat boards lately i am afraid to post more pics...in the last 2 days i have been accused of being a 45 yr old man with nothing better to do, an undercover dea or fbi agent, and have even been told that people have gotten emals confirming their beliefs. I also screwed up & forgot to log out steelsoldier a few times & posted as him about me ( he is my mans brother....my man is irongod for those of you who dont know,and we all live together..)<BR>one house one computer, 3 people....so some people think we are one in the same....'<P>see the abuse I am taking for being a female knowledgeable in as & training.....I even posted pics & people dont believe it.I cant win--- uggghhhhh---men & too much test<P><BR>but soon enough i will post my post-surgery pics, as soon as the swelling is down and i feel 100% <P><BR> <IMG SRC="http://www.elitefitness.com/ubb/smile.gif"> got to ignore um' ||209.236.134.226||reg||
Z||000050||litloak||06-13-2000||10:13 PM||litloak@wildmail.com||Holy inspirational speeches, Batman!!  Warlobo, that was awesome!  Dead on!  I had my teenage daughter show me how to cut and paste the main body of your post so that I can hang it up for inspiration in my workout area!  That is all SO true.  It's a shame that Dlady27 has "no idea what all that meant".  Very well "spoken", Warlobo.||24.213.36.148||reg||
Z||000051||MS||06-13-2000||10:27 PM||mad.scientist55@hushmail.com||I'm 100% certain that I ate enough today. Burp. Sure do love those Nachos with a few beers.  <P>Whoops.  Wrong board.  Forget that post. I thought I was on alt.rec.gorge.yourself<P>------------------<BR>The Mad Scientist<BR>||139.80.178.6||reg||
Z||000052||WarLobo||06-14-2000||01:07 PM||warlobo@operamail.com||Thanks Litloak - So you started training your daughter yet???  Get her going on the weights!<P><BR>MS, you kill me...<P>Late<P>Lobo||199.211.225.194||reg||
Z||000053||Iron God||06-28-2000||03:36 PM||irongod@hushmail.com||My masterpeice for the newbies who missed it the first time!!<BR>Bump<P>------------------<BR><I>Nam Et Ipsa Scientia Potestas Est!</I><P>||192.127.94.7||reg||
Z||000054||Dlady27||06-28-2000||04:22 PM||||Okay IG I will be a real woman and admit I was wrong before !  I have been given much advice and training tips, here! Thank You and I apologize!! ||208.205.113.135||reg||
Z||000055||skydancer||06-28-2000||04:25 PM||skydancer43@hotmail.com||bump for IG and Dlady too...it is a masterpiece IG!||216.244.31.147||reg||
Z||000056||Temple||06-28-2000||05:46 PM||dtkb@gpcom.net||How does a beginner know when their training is heavy enough to require them to up the calories???  Where I live I have no access to anything that resembles a personal trainer, my only sources of info are magazines and  this discussion board.  My doctor told me when I initially wanted to get this fat off that a 1200 cal per day diet should do it and it worked pretty well as long as I was just doing a few aerobics tapes a week but when I progressed onto 3 days of heavy lifting and 4 days of running I turned into a tired, depressed, aching mess in about two weeks so we have eliminated her as a good source of advice.  Increased my calories and felt good within a few days but how can you tell when you are heading for a wreck without overeating?<BR>||216.170.51.76||reg||
Z||000057||IronChick||06-28-2000||07:03 PM||fit1@hotbot.com||That metallic deity reference someone made up there was too damn funny...Anyway, I don't think the problem is that no one is giving the right diet advice - I read through too many posts giving different variations of the old eat frequent meals, eat 2g protein, cut starchy carbs, low GI carbs, etc etc all of the usual stuff. The advice is being given but women who are just starting out or have a few years under their belt and are not getting where they want to be just don't seem to believe that the nutrition part is the answer. So, you keep seeing the same question over and over. I think there is this part of them that says it is not really true - there is some secret thing they are not telling me. This is not the mainstream crap they are being fed about food, so it's really a societal problem. It's old school to us, but it's a new paradigm for them. It takes a little time to click. I have not given any diet advice on the boards, but I experience this kind of reaction in the real world. I tell them about the food part and they are like yeah, yeah, but OK now tell me for real. What about Hydroxycut or Triacana or whatever! Then they start to think it is drugs or supplements that do all the magic. Everybody wants a magic pill. And this stuff about getting too big is tiring to hear. Women do not get big by accident. It is a concerted effort of proper diet - yes eating lots of quality food and training very hard and smart and superior supplementation. I have never used any drugs, so it is hard to be TOO big. But fact is most women don't want to be my size. I have to laugh when I am approached for advice and a woman says she doesn't want to be as big as me. I tell them I didn't want to either, but it happened by accident.  <IMG SRC="http://www.elitefitness.com/ubb/smile.gif"> The more muscle I have gained over the years, the better I look. For women who are striving to find the formula: I learned about the "eating a lot" part shortly after starting to weight train and losing 35 lbs. I was very lean and feeling great. Problem for me was it looked like the only muscles I had were abs. I wanted more and I was told by BBs in my gym that I was gonna have to eat to get more muscle. Of course this did not sit right in my mind after all that hard work losing the fat. But it turns out to be true and it is the way to getting the ever-so-famous "toned" look. The tone is the muscle pushing out of the skin - no muscle - not much tone. I am a little larger in muscle size than what the average woman would want, but I train with brutal men and I eat to gain size. You can still look feminine even with size if it's done right. Or you can tailor your training if you don't want to put on so much size. For most this won't even be a concern unless you're planning on using steroids. That's the only time you are going to get big quickly as a beginner. If you don't use drugs this is not a concern. And my opinion if you're just starting out you shouldn't even be thinking about any drugs. Need to learn the ropes first. Become an expert on diet, training, and supplementation and then think about drugs, if you get to that level. You may find that you can get what you want without the drugs. Drugs didn't become a thought in mind until I got into competing. Patience is really important in this sport. Study what you are doing. Don't completely rely on other to guide you. My diet may not work for any other woman on this board but it works for me. We're all different, but DO follow the guidelines and tailor it. You have to get educated - there's no other way to succeed. No one can tell you exactly what to do. The body is just too complex and we all have our own quirks. With that being said - EAT!!!<P>------------------<BR><B>{{-}}</B><P>||192.135.215.20||reg||
Z||000058||Iron God||06-28-2000||08:02 PM||irongod@hushmail.com||Well put Iron Chick, now maybe all the IRON deficient trainees out there will take heed! <IMG SRC="http://www.elitefitness.com/ubb/wink.gif"><P>------------------<BR><I>Nam Et Ipsa Scientia Potestas Est!</I><P>||209.236.134.241||reg||
Z||000059||bikinimom||06-28-2000||08:43 PM||bikinimom@home.com||I posted the pics for you guys in sequence - fat chick, skinny chik - muscle chick.  And I told you guys that you HAVE TO EAT TO GROW!  If your goal is to be hard and small, by all means aerobicize, weight train, and eat enough to keep a bird alive (but make sure most of the calories you do consume come from protein.)  Your progress (if you want to call it that) will be slow and difficult - you will be tired, hungry, and bitchy ALL OF THE TIME, but damn, you'll be able to be a size 0!  If that is your goal do what I just told you.<P>If you want something more out of life, commit yourself to arming yourself with knowledge, have patience, discipline and EAT TO GROW!<P>PS One of my favorite comments that women who ask me to "show them a few weight things" in the gym make is - "But I don't want to do too much, I don't want to look like a guy!"  I say, "Do I look like a guy?"  and they quickly reply with some embarrassment, "Oh, no - that's not what I meant."  Then I ask, "Well what did you mean then, exactly?" ...No answer||24.4.252.72||reg||