Navbar

  Elite Fitness Bodybuilding, Anabolics, Diet, Life Extension, Wellness, Supplements, and Training Boards
  Women's Discussion Board
  Acne - A Solution????

Post New Topic  
profile | register | preferences | faq | search

Author Topic:   Acne - A Solution????
WarLobo

Moderator

Posts: 1455
From:CA
Registered: Jan 2000

posted August 23, 2000 01:35 PM

Staff Use Only: IP: Logged


Picked this up the other day, thought you all might it interesting....

Lobo


Unknown Board Member:

"At one time or another, most of us have suffered from acne. Acne can be one of the most demoralizing conditions of all since it takes away a persons sense of well being and self confidence. Ever since I was 18, I have suffered from moderate acne until I came accross pantothenic acid (Vit B5). I know many of you will be skeptical (I was to), but it really does work. Last year my acne cleared up totaly on a dose of 5 grams per day of pantothenic acid. I now take a maintenance dose of 2 grams per day and have not had one single pimple in the last 6 months. Below is the research paper that prompted me to take pantothenic acid. The research was conducted in Singapore almost 3 years ago and the results were staggering. Of the 100 patients in the study, all of them had a near 100% remission of their acne. I think that this study has not been publisized in the west because the drug companies would loose so much money if people realized that acne could be cured by something a cheap and simple and pantothenic acid. Even if you don't regularly get acne, pantothenic acid is a great way to prevent post cycle flare-ups. Here is the research paper"

by Lit-Hung Leung, M.D.

This article originally appeared in the scientifically prestigious Journal of Orthromolecular Medicine Vol. 12 Number 2, 1997. The version below is from a reprint of the original article and revisions were made in December 1998.

The Pathogenesis of Acne Vulgaris: A Medical Hypothesis

Over the years the pathogenesis of acne vulgaris has been extensively studied including, the structure and function of the pilosebaceous follicle, the physiology of sebum, microflora in acne vulgaris, and abnormal follicular keratinization, considered to be one of the earliest events in acne formation. Despite the concerted effort of many scientists, internists, pathologists and dermatologists, the pathogenesis of acne vulgaris remains largely elusive.

In this paper, I would like to approach this problem from a different perspective. My clinical observations suggest that acne vulgaris may be closely related to the consumption of diets, which are rich in fat content. This impression is by no means novel. Textbooks do briefly mention this correlation though, more often than not, it is dismissed as irrelevant. However, my observations have led to quite the contrary conclusions. Not only is the fat content of food closely related to acne vulgaris but it forms some sort of linear relationship with the disease process. The more fat the patient consumes, the more severe will be the acne process. This observation is in line with the opinion of many dermatologists that chocolate, which is composed mainly of the creamy part of milk, and has a high degree of fat content, is bad for acne. Significantly, in this group of patients, any deliberate attempt in trying to avoid a fatty diet over a period of weeks, if not days, will often result in important compound, cholesterol, which in turn is basically synthesized from units of acetyl-CoA. In the synthetic process, the body naturally is always trying not only to reach for a normal level of androgens, but an optimal level, so as to allow the body to function at its best. However, this is not always possible, and the normal level reached may not represent the optimal level. This is natures flexible way of dealing with shortage of essential dietary elements in any form to achieve a level that is just enough to manage the present situation, leaving a variable degree of shortage from the optimal level. In the present instance, in the two groups of boys, one group may have a normal level of androgens that is falling short of the optimum. One possible explanation for this is that there is a lack of basic building blocks, the acetyl-CoAs, which deter the body from operating at peak efficiency. If this is a viable possibility, it suggests that a plentiful supply or a deficiency of acetyl-CoA in the body may play a role in the acne process. this is certainly possible. Aside from its role in the synthesis of the sex hormones, acetyl-CoA, of which Coenzyme-A is the important component, it is also important in fatty acid metabolism as an acyl carrier in the lengthening and degradation of long chain fatty acids by adding or removing acyl groups in the metabolic process.

Acne vulgaris is related to lipid metabolism as well as the sex hormones, both of which have a lot to do with Coenzyme-A. This relationship provides a reasonable ground to link up the acne process to Coenzyme-A and to investigate the pathogenesis of acne vulgaris along this line.

The Importance of Coenzyme-A

In trying to link acne vulgaris to Coenzyme-A, it is important to have a hypothesis supporting some basic facts. A closer look at Coenzyme-A may provide the evidence.

A Sharing scenario; As a coenzyme active in both fatty acid metabolism and sex hormone synthesis, Coenzyme-A is shared between two different metabolic processes. This is not uncommon in biochemical reactions in metabolism, where a coenzyme is often shared among a number of reactions. Coenzyme-A is arguably the most important coenzyme in the body, and when a coenzyme is involved in the metabolic process to such an extent as this, it becomes legitimate to ask if a shortage and deficiency is possible. To answer this, a brief look at the structure of Coenzyme-A is warranted.

Coenzyme-A is formed from adenosine triphosphate, cysteine, and pantothenic acid. Of these pantothenic acid is the only component that is a vitamin, and must be provided from our dietary intake. Could there be an insufficient intake of pantothenic acid resulting in a deficiency in Coenzyme-A, which would leave the body unable to cope with all the reactions, that it has to perform with that all-important coenzyme? Conventional wisdom does not think so. It is suggested that pantothenic acid, being ubiquitous, can be had from whatever kind of food that is taken in, and that there is no question as to its deficiency in our body. However, a deficiency is still possible. After all, when so many reactions are dependent on the same agent, its demand must be tremendous. Shortage under such circumstances is not entirely impossible.

The Crucial Question and the New Theory

If the question of deficiency of Coenzyme-A does come up, how does it affect acne, knowing its importance in fatty acid metabolism and sex hormone synthesis? This is the crucial question. This is where the new hypothesis on the pathogenesis of acne vulgaris is based, and this is where it diverges from conventional medical ideas. The author's proposed hypothesis for the pathogenesis of acne vulgaris is that the disease process is not caused by androgens, or any other sex hormones, but rather, the disease process results from a defect in lipid metabolism that is secondary to a deficiency in pantothenic acid, hence Coenzyme-A. Coenzyme-A, in carrying out its function efficiently both as an agent in fatty acid metabolism and an agent in androgen and sex hormone synthesis, has to be present in sufficient amounts, and anything less than sufficient will result in some compromise.

Mother Nature's Choice

Faced with the dilemma of a shortage of Coenzyme-A the body will tend to make a choice that is to the best advantage of the individual. The body does so by largely maintaining the functionally more important reaction, while at the same time slowing down the lesser important one. The choice here is a relatively simple one. Nature will seek to take care of the synthesis of hormones first, because continuation of the species depends on the development of the sex organs. Fatty acid metabolism is, for the time being, at least in part halted. Lipids start to accumulate in the sebaceous glands, sebum excretion is increased, and acne begins to appear. When there is enough Coenzyme-A in the body, however, both reactions will be well taken care of. There are enough sex hormones for the sex organs to develop. The lipids in the sebaceous glands are completely metabolized by sufficient Coenzyme-A, and there will be no unwanted lipid in the glands and little sebum will be excreted to cause acne vulgaris.

The Mystery Revealed

The mechanism proposed above may be the reason why two groups of adolescent boys both with a normal blood level of androgen may exhibit differences in the incidence of acne. The group with acne is the one that has not enough pantothenic acid in the body, whereas in the other group, pantothenic acid levels are not deficient.
This new theory seems to work well here, and can be tested in other metabolic situations. In the case in which endogenous androgen stimulates acne, whereas exogenous does not, the reasoning for the observation is the same. Any endogenous androgen synthesis will require the participation of extra amount of pantothenic acid. This will channel off some of those that are doing the work of fatty acid metabolism. Consequently, fatty acid metabolism becomes less efficient and the individual is more prone to have acne.

Today, the percentage of adult women that have acne is increasing. Some of these women may not have had acne as teenagers, and are surprised to find that they have to deal with this unpleasant problem during their adult years. Acne can have profound psychological and social effects on adults, just as it does in teenagers.

Many women in their 30s and 40s experience high levels of life stress because they shoulder the multiple burdens of career, child rearing, and housework, and often the responsibility of caring for their own aging parents. Perhaps this increasing level of stress has contributed to the rising incidence of acne in adult women.

Microcomedo

Acne vulgaris of adulthood is similar to teenage acne. The pilosebaceous units of the face, chest, and back can be involved. The primary lesion of acne is the "microcomedo." A microscopic plug develops due to the presence of thickened and impacted keratin (dead cells) and excess oil production (sebum). More and more of the keratin and sebum back up behind this plug and form a distended follicular pore. This results in either an open comedo (blackhead) or a closed comedo (whitehead). The enlarged pilosebaceous structure allows Propionibacterium acne's, an anaerobic diphtheroid, to proliferate. Propionibacterium acne's contributes to the breakdown of lipids to free fatty acids, which are highly inflammatory. The distended follicle can rupture, causing further inflammation and the development of papules, pustules and nodules.

Acne Rosacea

Another skin disease that simulates and can coexist with acne vulgaris is acne rosacea. This skin problem is common in women, most often between the ages of 30 and 50. The face, especially the middle third, is erythematous and flushed. Multiple telangiectasias are frequently present. Small papules and pustules, which may look similar to those seen in acne vulgaris, are common, but the microcomedo component of acne vulgaris is absent in blepharitis. Rosacea keratitis is less common, but potentially vision-threatening. Rosacea is another skin disorder that is frequently stress related.

What about premenstrual flare? In the luteal phase of the menstrual cycle, progesterone in is secreted abundantly by the corpus lutcum. This naturally will take up a lot of pantothenic acid from the body's pantothenic pool leading to a re-distribution of the vitamin and putting enormous pressure on fatty acid metabolism. When this metabolic process is not performing satisfactorily, lipid begins to accumulate in the sebaccous glands, an increase in sebum is excreted, and acne follows. That is why even thought progesterone has no effect on sebaceous gland activity, an increasing level of progesterone in the late stage of the luteal phase leaves the acne patient with a prominent flare.

Similarly, this may explain why eunuchs rarely exhibit acne. Since so few sex hormones are secreted, the pantothenic acid pool can deploy a more significant portion of its reserve to metabolize fatty acids. When this is efficiently done, little sebum is excreted, and no acne is formed.

This theory also explains the paradoxical problem of equal sex hormones that counts. Both males and females need sex hormones for the development of sex organs and the secondary sexual characteristics. The only difference is that in the male, the female sex hormones predominate. Apparently the synthesis of sex hormones uses a large portion of the pantothenic acid pool, leaning a relative shortage of it to efficiently metabolize fatty acids. The result is that acne starts to erupt, at the same time the sex organs begin to develop at puberty.

The reason acne first erupts at puberty is not, therefore, endocrinological, but rather secondary to the deployment of a substantial amount of pantothenic acid for the purposes of synthesis of sex hormones, leaving a relative deficiency for fatty acid metabolism. The size of this pantothenic acid pool and the ability with which the individual can deploy reserves from the pool varies and is likely to be influenced by genetic and dietary factors.

In conditions in which there is an increase in secretion of any hormone whose synthesis requires the participation of pantothenic acid, acne may erupt. This is frequently seen with those hormone secreting tumours of the ovary, testis and the adrenals. The rapid decline in incidence of acne after adolescence can also be explained. After the sex organs are fully developed, less sex hormones are required, leaving an adequate supply of pantothenic acid to serve the function of fatty acid metabolism. When this function is efficiently accomplished, sebum secretion dries up, and acne starts to fade.

Deficiency in Lipid Metabolism

In linking the pathogenesis of acne vulgaris to a deficiency in lipid metabolism and pantothenic acid, it is worthwhile to remember that fatty acid metabolism is not the sole domain of pantothenic acid. There are some other essential dietary factors that are also of importance in the same process. Together they form a system that will make the whole metabolic process as efficient as possible. Preliminary studies by the author suggest that, together with pantothenic acid, biotin as well as nicotinamide help to further improve the therapeutic results. By themselves alone, they are far less effective in helping acne patients than with pantothenic acid, and this serves to support the suggestion that pantothenic acid plays a central role in lipid metabolism. Lipid metabolism is a complicated process, and is often intertwined with other metabolic processes, sharing with them common coenzymes in widely different reactions. When there is an increase in level of some of these coenzymes, there may be a shift in the directions of some ongoing reactions, and may affect lipid metabolism as a result. This can manifest clinically as acne vulgaris. To illustrate this, there are reports showing that acne may be induced by administration of large doses of vitamin B12 alone or in combination with B6. Cessation of the administration of these vitamins will bring a halt to the acne eruptions. If the body is in a relative deficiency state in B6 and B12, administration of the vitamins will enhance the reactions that involve the participation of these vitamins. This will set up a chain of events, some of which entail the participation of pantothenic acid. With the total pantothenic acid pool fixed relative to an increase in other vitamins, emphasis of any reaction involving pantothenic acid will automatically mean a cutting back on other reactions that require it as a coenzyme. This will often include those involving lipid metabolism, resulting in a certain degree of deficiency in that metabolic process, hence the increased incidence of acne vulgaris in these studies.

Stress Related Acne

It is perhaps relevant here to consider stress as another common factor that is known to affect acne adversely. Stress in many forms poses as an aggravating factor in acne lesions. Lack of sleep at night, pre-examination tension, any psychological problem that may worry the patient will bring on new acne lesions. To understand this, one should recall that in combating stress, the body will secrete glucocorticoids from the adrenal glands as a means to adapt to stress, what is commonly known as the fight-or-flight reaction. The glucocorticoids, like the sex hormones, are derivatives of cholesterol, and increased demand for this hormone will draw on the pantothenic acid pool. Lipid metabolism may therefore be compromised, rendering the body more prone to acne.

If pantothenic acid deficiency is indeed the main causative agent in the pathogenesis of acne vulgaris, it is logical to ask how much pantothecic acid patients are lacking in absolute amounts.

Deficiency Syndromes

Nutritional requirements can rarely be met through a well balanced diet, and dietary supplements, including vitamins, are often required. It is the generally held belief of the medical profession that vitamins, though essential to life and not synthesized in the body, are not required in great amounts. This view was challenged, notably by Linus Pauling. In his book, How to Live Longer and Feel Better, Pauling provided vigorous proof, through comparative studies in animals and from an evolutionary point of view, that vitamin C supplements are needed if an optimal state of health is to be achieved. Not only is supplementation necessary, gut the amount required is far greater than most people believe, as with the case of vitamin C where the optimal dose may be 10 or more grams a day. This issue was a point of heated debate in the 1970s and 1980s.

Though Pauling has quite a large following, by and large, the issue was dismissed by the mainstream medical profession, because of a lack of theoretical support and a general bias against nutritional and vitamin therapy. But, in view of the new evidence suggested in thes and many other papers, it seems appropriate that the issue be considered.

How Much Pantothenic Acid?

In trying to determine the amount of pantothinic acid necessary to relieve acne patients of their symptoms, Pauling's experience with vitamin C provides a good guideline. Pauling had for a long time recommended vitamin C in high dosages to achieve optimal health. Radically different from what is recommended by the Food and Nutrition Board of the National Research Council (who recommended 60 mg daily). Pauling's recommended daily intake of vitamin C amounts to several grams a day. The recommendation was stepped up to 15-20 grams a day in his later years. Using these recommendations as a background, it becomes somewhat easier to arrive at a proper dosage for pantothentic acid in the treatment of acne vulgaris.

Pantothenic acid, which acquires its name from the Greek word meaning ubiquitous, is present in all tissues. Its universal presence is an indication of its importance. This is further reflected by the many reactions that it catalyzes. It should not come as a surprise then, that the amount of pantothenic acid required for optimal health, is of the same order of that of vitamin C. Based on this argument, the dose of pantothenic acid administered to the acne patients was up to 10 grams a day, and the result of these studies were first reported in Medical Hypotheses.

The Effect of Pantothenic Acid on Acne Vulgaris

One hundred patients of Chinese descent were included in the study, 45 males and 55 females. The age ranged from 10 to 30, and with about 80% between 13 and 23. The severity of the disease process varied. They were given 10 grams of pantothenic acid a day in four divided doses. To enhance the effect, the patients were also asked to apply a cream consisting of 20% by weight of pantothenic acid to the affected area, four to six tines a day. With this treatment regimen, the response is as prompt as it is impressive. There is a noticeable decrease in sebum secretion on the face usually 2-3 days after initiation of therapy. The face becomes less oily. After two weeks, existing lesions start to regress while the rate of eruption of new acne lesions begins to slow down. In cases with moderate severity, the condition is normally in complete control in about eight weeks, with most of the lesions gone and new lesions only to erupt occasionally. In those patients with severe acne lesions, complete control may take months, sometimes up to six months or longer. In some of these cases, in order to get a more immediate response, it may even be necessary to step up the dose to 15-20 grams a day. In any event, the improvement is normally a gradual and steady process, with perhaps minor interruptions by premenstrual flare or excessive intakes of oily food. With this form of treatment, another striking feature is the size of the facial skin pore.

The pore size becomes noticeably smaller within one to two weeks, very often much sooner. Like sebum excretion, the pores will continue to shrink until the skin becomes much finer, giving the patient a much more beautiful skin.

This decrease in skin pore size is presumably related to sebum excretion. When an acne lesion is formed, there is in the epithelial cell of the hair follicle an accumulation of lipids, leaving the epithelial cells bulky and the lumen of the gland narrowed. When there is a concomitant increase in sebum flow, the follicle has no choice but to hypertrophy to accommodate the changes, resulting in an enlarged skin pore and coarse skin. With the administration of pantothenic acid, the whole process is reversed. Lipid metabolism becomes normal and efficient. The epithelium is no longer laden with fat droplets, there is a decrease in sebum excretion, the hypertrophy process is not required. The skin pores revert to a much smaller size and the skin becomes smooth and fine.

As acne lesions tend to subside spontaneously after puberty, some patients do not need a maintenance dose. But, if a patient is in his mid-teens, when the sexual characteristics have yet to fully develop, it may be necessary for replacement therapy to be implemented. This maintenance dose, can be lowered, or increased with the clinical symptoms. A maintenance dose will not only act as a preventive measure against sporadic eruption, but the extra pantothenic acid will help to ease the relative deficiency state, and likely improve the general health of the patient.

------------------
LAte

Lobo


Click Here to See the Profile for WarLobo   Click Here to Email WarLobo     Edit/Delete Message      Reply w/Quote
skydancer

Elite Bodybuilder

Posts: 1024
From:Central CA, USA
Registered: May 2000

posted August 23, 2000 02:29 PM

Staff Use Only: IP: Logged


Wow - thats fascinating info Lobo. I've been struggling with this as you know. I think I'm going to have to experiment with this. Thank you!

------------------
Patience is a bitter plant, but it has sweet fruit.


Click Here to See the Profile for skydancer   Click Here to Email skydancer     Edit/Delete Message    UIN: 76679089   Reply w/Quote
Monster

Amateur Bodybuilder

Posts: 207
From:
Registered: Sep 2000

posted August 23, 2000 03:27 PM

Staff Use Only: IP: Logged


I dont know if anyone remembers my last post about acne, detailing my skin care regimine, but Ive found something that helps give me that exrta edge. Mind you, Im at over 1500mg of sustanon a week and right around 1400mg of deca a week at the same time. So far Ive had NO ACNE! I had a close call or two, but this new deal kicked it right in the ass (or the gland mabye).
Throughout the day (in between what I usually do) I apply antibacterial hand wash to the "T-Zone" and any area that feels like something is sprouting up. You know the stuff. Its in little bottles made for the purse, or a bigger bottle for home? Well, the beauty is in the fact that the alcohl in it is a nice dry out, and the addition of glycerin (glycerol) prevents your skin from overdrying!
I had the start of one coming in (couldnt see it yet, but could feel it), and this just knocked it right out! Between everything else I do for my skin everyday and this, Im feeling good about my chances of getting out of this cycle relativly unscathed!


Click Here to See the Profile for Monster   Click Here to Email Monster     Edit/Delete Message    UIN: 35077339   Reply w/Quote
skydancer

Elite Bodybuilder

Posts: 1024
From:Central CA, USA
Registered: May 2000

posted August 23, 2000 03:33 PM

Staff Use Only: IP: Logged


Monster...good idea. The only problem is being female I'm wearing makeup during the day at work. In order to apply something like that would take me 10 min at least! Too high maintenance for me. But a good idea to use it before the gym in the am and again at night perhaps. Are talking about the waterless handwash stuff? Or actual soap?

------------------
Patience is a bitter plant, but it has sweet fruit.


Click Here to See the Profile for skydancer   Click Here to Email skydancer     Edit/Delete Message    UIN: 76679089   Reply w/Quote
Monster

Amateur Bodybuilder

Posts: 207
From:
Registered: Sep 2000

posted August 23, 2000 04:00 PM

Staff Use Only: IP: Logged


The actual waterless handwash stuff... its worked wonders so far. My facial regimine otherwise, is kind of intense (I dont discuss it with male friends or they call me "girlie" )
But to stay acne free with almost 3000mg of gear (combined) in me is evidence that its working.
Hmmm, the make up thing throws a wrench in it though doesnt it... hmm I'll have to give this some thought...
A couple things to keep in mind is that the you can analyze the cause of acne and treat it. The "vulgaris"type is an actual bacterial infection of the gland. Thats why I wash with antibacterial soap several times a day (morning, pre gym, post gym, before bed). Also, it can be caused by imbalances in your body and different types of "toxicities" (for lack of a better word).
Taking milk thistle or other liver detoxifiers may help too. Ive heard theories about the liver not filtering out impurities in the blood efficiantly and that may lead to acne flare ups.
I'll give it some thought though. I train a couple of women... I'll ask them and see what they have to say (tips or tricks).
Hope that is of SOME help in the mean time.


(Have you ever tried accutane or retin-a?)


Click Here to See the Profile for Monster   Click Here to Email Monster     Edit/Delete Message    UIN: 35077339   Reply w/Quote
WarLobo

Moderator

Posts: 1455
From:CA
Registered: Jan 2000

posted August 23, 2000 04:17 PM

Staff Use Only: IP: Logged


Damn Monster, 1400mg of deca?!?!? Anyways, thanks for the quality inputs!!

I'm currently thinking about the accutain, but I'm going go to the doc first and try to get the ins to pay for it. I've had a life long problem with it, way before I ever jucied. Not real bad, just hate to take off my shirt and damn tired of it.

------------------
LAte

Lobo


Click Here to See the Profile for WarLobo   Click Here to Email WarLobo     Edit/Delete Message      Reply w/Quote
Monster

Amateur Bodybuilder

Posts: 207
From:
Registered: Sep 2000

posted August 23, 2000 04:54 PM

Staff Use Only: IP: Logged


Yeah, 1400mg... 400 a day actualy. Plus 1750mg of sustanon... 250mg a day.
Trying a sort of plateau breaker. I was up close to 300lbs at one point, but had to come off a cycle in a hard and harsh way (long story... another time..).
So I withered away to around 235-240lbs after that. It was a big let down for me, I mean, I was still big but it was a personal goal.
I havent been able to break the 250lb mark since, this has done the trick already, though!
Im not using any orals of any sort, just injectables. 1 sustanon a day for 10 days, 400mg of deca a day for 10 days, 100mg of prop a day for 10 days. Then at the 30 day mark, the gear has all cleared my system, and I take 20-30 days off.
At the 1 week mark I had gained 8lbs. I wasnt retaining water to any appreciable degree, my blood pressure seemed OK, and no nipple soreness or any other "danger signs". My skin was helluva oily, but my skin care system seemed to be keeping the acne under wraps *crossing fingers*.
Im at the 2 week mark now and put on another 4lbs. It would have been more, but my diet slipped this past week, due to some family emergencies that came up. But Ive tried to keep it at 5000 calories and clean!
My good friend has always had acne problems and has tried it all. Accutain worked for a whle, but it reoccured years later. They have him on some antibiotics now (not tetracycline... I cant think of it off hand) and its actually clearing him up pretty well. He's also using topical retin-a. Its good stuff, but it restricts sun exposure... and I need to be tan!
Give the insurace a try. He's getting through insurance so he's only paying the $2 co-pay! Ya cant beat that!!!!


Click Here to See the Profile for Monster   Click Here to Email Monster     Edit/Delete Message    UIN: 35077339   Reply w/Quote
DA BOMB

Cool Novice

Posts: 13
From:SOUTH FLORIDA
Registered: Aug 2000

posted August 23, 2000 05:00 PM

Staff Use Only: IP: Logged


SKYDANCER...let me know how it works for you

------------------
skip the excuses


Click Here to See the Profile for DA BOMB     Edit/Delete Message      Reply w/Quote
skydancer

Elite Bodybuilder

Posts: 1024
From:Central CA, USA
Registered: May 2000

posted August 23, 2000 05:12 PM

Staff Use Only: IP: Logged


Thanks Monster...that handwash stuff seems pretty harsh to put on my face. Tea tree oils (stttinnnnkkks) but seems to be working well. I just started taking milk thistle on the theory that helping detoxify my liver might help my skin.

I am not on anything...its just been a continuing problem since I went of bc pills.

DA BOMB - yes I'll keep you all posted.

------------------
Patience is a bitter plant, but it has sweet fruit.


Click Here to See the Profile for skydancer   Click Here to Email skydancer     Edit/Delete Message    UIN: 76679089   Reply w/Quote
Monster

Amateur Bodybuilder

Posts: 207
From:
Registered: Sep 2000

posted August 23, 2000 05:28 PM

Staff Use Only: IP: Logged


The hand wash stuff is basiclly rubbing alcohol. The glycerin keeps it from being real harsh, and stops it from overdrying. But if you have real sensative skin it might be too much for you... it stings a little going on, but personally, I suspect I may be a little sadistic deep down...


Click Here to See the Profile for Monster   Click Here to Email Monster     Edit/Delete Message    UIN: 35077339   Reply w/Quote
skydancer

Elite Bodybuilder

Posts: 1024
From:Central CA, USA
Registered: May 2000

posted August 23, 2000 07:11 PM

Staff Use Only: IP: Logged


We are ALL sadistic...look at what we do to ourselves. I still think its a good thing to try. I might start once a day and see how the skin feels. Thanks again for the info.

------------------
Patience is a bitter plant, but it has sweet fruit.


Click Here to See the Profile for skydancer   Click Here to Email skydancer     Edit/Delete Message    UIN: 76679089   Reply w/Quote
DA BOMB

Cool Novice

Posts: 13
From:SOUTH FLORIDA
Registered: Aug 2000

posted August 25, 2000 09:58 AM

Staff Use Only: IP: Logged


WARLOBO..Where can you get such high does of straight pantothenic Acid? I'll i find are b complexes.

------------------
skip the excuses


Click Here to See the Profile for DA BOMB     Edit/Delete Message      Reply w/Quote
WarLobo

Moderator

Posts: 1455
From:CA
Registered: Jan 2000

posted August 25, 2000 10:27 AM

Staff Use Only: IP: Logged


I've got a mail order list at home, I'll post the details tonight.

------------------
LAte

Lobo


Click Here to See the Profile for WarLobo   Click Here to Email WarLobo     Edit/Delete Message      Reply w/Quote
skydancer

Elite Bodybuilder

Posts: 1024
From:Central CA, USA
Registered: May 2000

posted August 25, 2000 10:55 AM

Staff Use Only: IP: Logged


I ordered mine from www.vitaminshoppe.com

I couldn't find it locally anywhere either.

500mg/300 per bottle $18.95..enough for 30 days if I take 5g a day to start.

------------------
Patience is a bitter plant, but it has sweet fruit.


Click Here to See the Profile for skydancer   Click Here to Email skydancer     Edit/Delete Message    UIN: 76679089   Reply w/Quote
Big Shan

Novice

Posts: 3
From:TX
Registered: Aug 2000

posted August 30, 2000 12:40 AM

Staff Use Only: IP: Logged


Interesting! Thanks to *Lobo* fer the info/help from my previous post.
Well I must say there sure is a lot of info on this (vitB5) maybe even a little too much. Shyt! 10 pages I think I printed! Haha! Anyway wondering if anyone has tried this (vitB5) aproach?? I think it was Skydancer that mentioned she was gunna try it...did ya have any luck? If anyone has tried this pantothenic acid...any comments Pro's,Con's or results would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks,
Shanahan


Click Here to See the Profile for Big Shan     Edit/Delete Message      Reply w/Quote
AGENT SHAGWELL

Pro Bodybuilder

Posts: 501
From:cryogenically frozen somewhere in FL
Registered: Aug 2000

posted August 30, 2000 01:19 PM

Staff Use Only: IP: Logged


All those trying this one post results please!!


Click Here to See the Profile for AGENT SHAGWELL     Edit/Delete Message      Reply w/Quote
ulter

Elite Bodybuilder

Posts: 1076
From:Chicago,Ill,USA
Registered: Apr 2000

posted August 30, 2000 01:52 PM

Staff Use Only: IP: Logged


There's a post about who is trying this on the Anabolic board by Clemdog. My wife an I are trying it and will be posting our results as well. She's a model (talk about makeup) so she's excited about it.


Click Here to See the Profile for ulter   Click Here to Email ulter     Edit/Delete Message      Reply w/Quote
Lisa_The_Strong

Cool Novice

Posts: 25
From:
Registered: Sep 2000

posted August 30, 2000 03:19 PM

Staff Use Only: IP: Logged


I have always got the occasional pimple, and, even taking vit B for years, I still get flare ups...I can't wheither or not they are worse or better now though....especially a week before I menstruate....but, I suppose if your acne is bad, then even a little improvement would be great


Click Here to See the Profile for Lisa_The_Strong   Click Here to Email Lisa_The_Strong     Edit/Delete Message      Reply w/Quote
skydancer

Elite Bodybuilder

Posts: 1024
From:Central CA, USA
Registered: May 2000

posted August 30, 2000 04:25 PM

Staff Use Only: IP: Logged


Agent Shag - I started a topic on it and will keep you all posted...I just started yesterday. Trinity13 started as well...

------------------
Patience is a bitter plant, but it has sweet fruit.


Click Here to See the Profile for skydancer   Click Here to Email skydancer     Edit/Delete Message    UIN: 76679089   Reply w/Quote
IceBlast

Cool Novice

Posts: 25
From:Texas
Registered: Sep 2000

posted October 03, 2000 06:51 PM

Staff Use Only: IP: Logged


How is this stuff working?


Click Here to See the Profile for IceBlast   Click Here to Email IceBlast     Edit/Delete Message    UIN: 49909504   Reply w/Quote

All times are ET (US)

Post New Topic  
Hop to:

Contact Us | Back to Elite Fitness | Privacy Statement

Powered by Infopop www.infopop.com © 2000
Ultimate Bulletin Board 5.45c



HomeArticlesDiscussion BoardsFeatured SitesContact Us� ReportsSupplementsShopping