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"Pain, is just weakness leaving your body"
"...damn you for not giving my TEST" - Metallica
"After this show i'll be fat and happy again.....If i make it to the show...." - Lee Priest
"Lets put some weight on the bar.." - Shawn Ray
"IT DOESN'T MATTER" - The Rock||130.67.15.250||reg|| Z||000005||d1734||08-19-2000||12:25 PM||d1734@yahoo.com||check my post "warning about yohimbe and ephedrine combonation" i answered this question there.||24.31.114.84||reg|| Z||000006||vlaovic||08-19-2000||08:44 PM||vvlaovic@hotmail.com||I read what you said about aspirin in that post. Where did you get that information (not questioning it, but actually quite curious since I never knew the exact reason for including aspirin)? The only thing that would worry me is building up a tolerance to aspirin. Sure, taking the e/c will make you build a tolerance to them as well, but e and c don't have many health benefits (ma huang is supposedly an herbal decongestant though). Suppose you get sick and actually need the aspirin for medicinal purposes, yet you've built up a huge tolerance to it? I wonder if cycling in the aspirin every other day, or even every few days would prevent this, and is the difference in thermogenesis THAT big with or w/o aspirin? ||207.161.227.109||reg|| Z||000007||d1734||08-19-2000||10:24 PM||d1734@yahoo.com||to be honest i got no clue where i read it originally. but doing an internet search i found this: On the surfaces of many of the cells of the body (for our purposes the most important tissues are muscle and fat cells) are located b receptors. These b receptors bind b-agonists (adrenaline and noradrenaline). When a ß-agonist is bound to a b receptor, the receptor initiates a series of chemical reactions that results in the production of a chemical messenger called C-AMP. This C-AMP then activates enzymes that phosphorylate proteins. Why is this important? Well, many of these proteins are enzymes and phosphorylation activates some enzymes and de-acitvates others. In fat cells enzymes are activated that induce lipolysis (fat breakdown). In muscle cells enzymes are activated that increase metabolism and cause a host of other important reactions which control muscle growth, fiber type and enzyme concentration. So, how do ephedrine, caffeine and aspirin fit into this pathway? Ephedrine enhances ß-agonist production and even acts as a ß-agonist itself. Caffeine inhibits the breakdown of C-AMP. Aspirin inhibits the negative feedback loop that would reduce ß-agonist production. So taken together these agents enhance three to four different steps in the ß-agonist pathway.
Ephedrine's role as a lipolytic agent (one that breaks down body fat to be used as energy) has been known for some time. It has been shown that ephedrine when taken in therapeutic doses is mildly effective in the management of obesity. The problem was that the initial lipolytic effects of ephedrine were soon diminished as other steps in the pathway were reduced in a negative feedback cycle. In an effort to enhance these steps that were being downregulated due to negative feedback, scientists added caffeine and aspirin to the regime. The result was a very effective combination in the management of obesity (dosages given were 20mg ephedrine, 300mg caffeine, and 80mg aspirin, roughly equivalent to one typical ephedrine tablet, a cup of coffee and one aspirin). In fact, not only did the results (lipolysis) not decrease over time as with most drugs, but they actually increased with time. The effects of the combination of ephedrine, caffeine and aspirin were categorized into desirable and undesirable effects. The desirable effects were lipolysis and protein sparing (subjects on the drug combination retained more muscle mass while dieting than the subjects on placebo). Again, these desirable effects did not diminish over time. The undesirable effects, increased heart rate and muscle tremors, lasted only a few days and never returned. In fact, after 1 year of supplementation subjects were experiencing no side effects but were still experiencing the desired effects of lipolysis and protein sparing. To date it has not been determined if the ephedrine, caffeine and aspirin combination can enhance muscle growth and fat loss in healthy, exercising adults. However, based on what we know about the ß-agonist system, it is certainly possible. It is important to note, however, that a small handful of subjects among the large subject pool had to drop out of the study due to an intolerance to the supplementation regime. So it appears that most people can use the ephedrine, caffeine and aspirin combination with no problems, while a small handful of people may be intolerant. A consultation with a physician is suggested before beginning this supplementation regime.
||24.31.114.84||reg|| Z||000008||vlaovic||08-20-2000||08:24 PM||vvlaovic@hotmail.com||Did you type that yourself or cut'n paste? Just kidding! Good info. I always knew ephedrine was the first "link" in the thermogenesis chain, and that caffeine prevented the body from returning to its natural equilibrium and diminishing ephedrine's effect, but really had no idea how aspirin fit into the equation, nor did I ever bother looking up the exact mechanism behind the stack (ie beta receptors etc.). You said that 80mg is the typical aspirin dose, but most aspirin have about 325mg per pill. I thought that the "ideal" dose for the eca is 20mg e/200mg c/300mg. ||207.161.227.109||reg|| Z||000009||d1734||08-20-2000||11:20 PM||d1734@yahoo.com||personally i use about 200-300 mg of aspirin. i'm not sure of what the optimal dose is myself. actually alot of e/c/a use much less aspirin/aspirin equivalents than 80 mgs even.||24.31.114.84||reg|| Z||000010||vlaovic||08-21-2000||01:17 AM||vvlaovic@hotmail.com||I think I'll stack my 25mg E and 200-400mg C (depending on how much coffe I can put down) with a Bayer 325mg aspirin before cardio tommorow and see if I feel anything different.
Also, did you actually see any POSITIVE results from yohimbe; talking first-hand rather than research?||207.161.227.109||reg|| Z||000011||Mr. Nobody||08-23-2000||12:28 PM||||Aspirin will block your pgf2 receptors:
Aspirin as an anti-prostaglandin
Aspirin or aspirin-like substances have the potential to reduce some of the side effects such as pain associated with PGF2 administration. However I tend to consider that the use of aspirin along with PGF2 weakens the overall anabolic effects without effectively fighting the side effects. This is true for the aspirin you can find in medication as well as the aspirin hidden in some ephedrine-caffeine stacks. I suggest that you avoid both of them. Several hypotheses could be advanced about the inhibiting effects of aspirin. Some research has shown that aspirin could block prostaglandin receptors. It may also impair the conversion of PGF2 to PGE2 which seems important for a maximal muscle building effect. I know that PGE2 is considered as a muscle enemy in the bodybuilding magazines, but the fact is that several studies have pointed out its usefulness in the bodybuilding process as a growth agent for the muscles. One last hypothesis is that PGF2 stimulates the subsequent natural release of muscle PGF2 or PGE2 which could further enhance the anabolic process. Aspirin would prevent this secondary anabolic secretion.
from:http://www.mesomorphosis.com/exclusive/dharkam/prostaglandins.htm||4.34.217.81||reg||