A||||31||GOWZER||NITROTECH=RIPOFF|||||| Z||000000||GOWZER||04-28-2000||05:42 PM||dcitydave@aol.com||MAN, WHEN WILL MT GIVE IT UP,THEIR SO FUCKIN FULL OF IT.SO HERES THE LATEST REVOLUTIONARY PRODUCT FROM MT.NITROTECH THE POWDER THATS GOING TO MAKE WHEY PROTIEN ABSOLETE.HAHAHA,THESE GUYS MAKE ME SICK,NITROTECH IS NOTHING BUT WHEY MIXED WITH CREATINE AND A COUPLE OF OTHER SO CALLED REVOLUTIONARY NUTRIENTS THE MT SCIETISTS HAVE DISCOVERED..GIVE ME A BREAK.SOMEONE SHOULD REALLY PULL THE PLUG ON THESE ASSHOLES.I SAY WE ALL STOP BUYING MUSCLEMAG AND START WRITING THEM LETTERS AND EMAILS DEMANDING THEY CUT THE CRAP WITH THESE 5 PAGE MT ARTICLE/ADVERTISEMENTS THEIR TRYING TO PUSH THESE FUKIN SUPPLEMENTS DOWN OUR THROATS IM FED UP.THEY TRY TO SAY IF YOU DONT USE MT YOURE WASTING YOUR TIME AT THE GYM.AND ALL OTHER COMPANYS ARE WORTHLESS.PERSONALLY IVE FOUND MT TO BE THE LEAST EFFECTIVE COMPANY IVE USED..PLEASE POST ALL REPLYS IM LOOKING FORWARD TO THE OPINIONS OF YOU FELLOW B.B....||152.163.194.198||reg|| Z||000001||GOWZER||05-03-2000||10:14 PM||dcitydave@aol.com||muscle tech sux balls..||205.188.199.176||reg|| Z||000002||Sight1||05-03-2000||10:19 PM||sight1@europe.com||how you doing B.P.||206.175.181.5||reg|| Z||000003||Sight1||05-03-2000||10:19 PM||sight1@europe.com||Just kidding,btw||206.175.181.5||reg|| Z||000004||Quadzilla43||05-04-2000||10:10 AM||||totally agree, bro. i once lived and died by cell tech, till i realized i could buy my own cre and dextrose and make my own, and i even got better results doing it my way, and saved a whole lot of money. never tried any of the other products, so i really cant say. but for musclemag to try and say that they have no obligation to muscletech and are not being payed by muscletech at all to be biased towards their products insults our intelligence. u never see bill phillips running 5 or 6 page ads, or prolab, or optimum. musclemag is not about informing the reader anymore, its just about selling products.

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"The weights are a means to an end, they are not my friends."-Nasser||128.119.119.180||reg|| Z||000005||Frackal||05-04-2000||02:15 PM||rsblunt3d@msn.com||All I have to say is F*ck MuscleTech!!!
||63.14.52.165||reg|| Z||000006||Serial Joe||05-09-2000||09:33 AM||||HAHA funny, but you see Bill Phillips putting out a whole Supplement Guide, which is so partial to EAS products that it's sickening. Or how about Muscle Media? Also anyone seen Lab Test Review AKA "Bill Phillips Book Of Dirt On His Competitors?" In that book EAS products that were pretty far off label claims WERE STILL RECOMMENDED! Can you beleive that? While Muscletech and Twinlab products were bashed.

If you think M-tech is bad, have a look at EAS. Hell they're still pushing HMB!!! How sad is that? Same with Twinlab! HMB Fuel? Get real! I could crap in a bottle and call it Butt-Tech and it would work better than Betagen.

Anyways I'm not defending anyone, just pointing out that everyone does it, they just use different methods.

||209.167.129.22||reg|| Z||000007||GOWZER||05-10-2000||11:48 PM||dcitydave@aol.com||hahaha butt tech that shit is halarious.anyways where can i get this lab review book.||152.163.205.27||reg|| Z||000008||Serial Joe||05-11-2000||09:52 AM||||

I don't know where you can find the book anymore, I think it was pulled from print because it was so inaccurate. There used to be a site called www.labtestreview.com but it's gone now.

||209.167.129.39||reg|| Z||000009||RaginAsian||05-12-2000||02:10 AM||raginasian@888.nu||Serial Joe, I sense some rage towards Bill Phillips...||207.172.110.193||reg|| Z||000010||Serial Joe||05-12-2000||08:01 AM||||Nah just tired of all the Muscletech bashing when Bill Phillips is 10 times as bad. I doubt you'll ever see M-Tech come out with an HMB product or something as atrocious as Body For Life.||209.167.129.37||reg|| Z||000011||GOWZER||05-12-2000||10:38 PM||dcitydave@aol.com||actually muscletech came out with their own body for life challenge,where u could win a dodge viper.its a complete eas rip off,its fuckin sick.atleast eas is original.||205.188.195.31||reg|| Z||000012||scott825||05-13-2000||08:46 AM||trickytrav@hotmail.com||True MT is a scam I fell for that whole
cell tech thing about a year ago.I use
regular creatine from optimum nut. & buy
lipoic acid separetly & stil save lots of
money.Mt pulls in all the newbies to the sport.||24.4.252.177||reg|| Z||000013||Serial Joe||05-13-2000||11:35 AM||||Hey bro, even Testosterone came out with a Physique Challenge. At least the winnner of the Muscletech challenge gets to train with a pro bodybuilder for a year on top of all the other prizes. What do you win with EAS? You get to be on a stupid video plugging Bill Phillips as the greatest bodybuilding authority. I'd rather train with a Muscletech bodybuilder than become an EAS/Body For Life "yes man".

Sorry I just can't stand Bill Phillips and BFL. Musceltech takes a lot of crap for what they do, when if you look closely, even Biotest is doing the same thing.||24.66.126.35||reg|| Z||000014||Quadzilla43||05-13-2000||12:25 PM||||in my opinion, 95% of supplement companies are not all about selling the user a good product, but they are more about just selling the user a product, however overhyped it is. nitrotech increasing ur bench 60 pounds in 6 weeks? how stupid do people have to be to believe this? as long as there are companies in competition you are going to see heads of one company knocking another companies product. the only real way to avoid this is to stick to the small companies. www.proteinfactory.com has always come through in the clutch for me, and i know that site is favored by other trainers as well. the only real difference between the small companies and the larger ones is that the small companies cant afford the overwhelming advertising. musclemag runs probably 3 5-page ads each issue on muscletech products, not to mention the other companies that sneak in ads that cover 2 pages. once i started to steer clear of the hype, i began to save money and grow, because i was buying products that lasted 5 times longer than the overhyped and gave me better results. hope i helped. as always....

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In Quad We Trust.
||128.119.119.180||reg|| Z||000015||GOWZER||05-13-2000||09:57 PM||dcitydave@aol.com||i wish all bodybuilders would just stop buying these garbage mags.theyre all the SAME fuckin shit every month its the same recycled routine,along with eating six meals a day and taking creatine,i mean when was the last time any one learned anything new from a mag.these writers portray themselves as bodybuilding gurus while most of em cant bench a 100lb.we gotta stop the cycle man.alot of guys complain but its them that support the bull shit.
dont believe the hype...

[This message has been edited by GOWZER (edited May 15, 2000).]||205.188.192.159||reg|| Z||000016||Serial Joe||05-13-2000||10:05 PM||||I agree...the net is where it's at today. There some great online magazines that aren't owned by supplement companies that are actually good. www.ironmag.com is one of them. I think they're coming out with a new platform or something soon, but they are almost always no bullshit..

There a some more but I don't know them off the top of my head...||209.183.131.195||reg|| Z||000017||bigguns 72||05-14-2000||09:02 PM||||MT is a sham just like that idiot Kovacs. Kovacs is more of a gut builder than a bodybuilder. i know guys at my gym that have met him and his gut sticks out triple the size of his chest. As long as the idiots keep buying muscletech he will be around but if muscletech goes tits up so will his career as he couldn't win a national amateur contest right now let alone a pro event. MT is over priced garbage and the fella that promotes them (kovacs) is over hyped.||24.66.238.121||reg|| Z||000018||GOWZER||05-15-2000||12:19 AM||dcitydave@aol.com||yeah good old natural kovaks,he got that big because he used celltech,with acetobolan,and mesotech.WHO THE FUCK ARE THESE ASSHOLES KIDDING!!! DO THEY REALLY THINK WE ARE THAT STUPID.EVERY ONE KNOWS KOVAKS IS ON EVERYTHING BUT THE KITCHEN SINK.I REALLY FEEL INSULTED BY THESE ADS MAN..||205.188.199.54||reg|| Z||000019||GOWZER||05-15-2000||12:20 AM||dcitydave@aol.com||yeah good old natural kovaks,he got that big because he used celltech,with acetobolan,and mesotech.WHO THE FUCK ARE THESE ASSHOLES KIDDING!!! DO THEY REALLY THINK WE ARE THAT STUPID.EVERY ONE KNOWS KOVAKS IS ON EVERYTHING BUT THE KITCHEN SINK.I REALLY FEEL INSULTED BY THESE ADS MAN..||205.188.199.54||reg|| Z||000020||Serial Joe||05-15-2000||12:55 PM||||"I know guys at my gym who have met him who say his gut sticks out more than his chest"

Yeah and while they were there with him they were probably kissing his ass.

Well I know guys at my gym who have met you and they say that they mistook your arms for McDonald's straws, and when you stepped behind a light post, it was five minutes before you came out the other side.

C'mon guys quit being so phucking childish. That's like saying because you saw a picture of Lee Priest in the off season so that must mean that he's a lardass all year long. I'd be willing to be that half of you would kill to be half as big as he is, but your not, so because you don't like the company he works for, you bash him. I mean I've heard some ridiculous things before, but saying that Greg Kovacs "isn't a bodybuilder, he's a gutbuilder" has got to be one of the stupidist most retarded things I've read on here.

But then again, you're 260lbs and ripped all year long, bench press 500lbs and are 18 years old right?

||209.167.129.32||reg|| Z||000021||Quadzilla43||05-15-2000||01:37 PM||||i understand what ur saying, but kovacs is a joke. sure, hes the strongest bodybuilder blah blah blah, but being the strongest isnt winning him any shows, is it? now his thing is hes gonna be 350 ripped at the olympia. HA HA HA. wasnt he supposed to be 350 pounds ripped 3 years ago? oh yeah, he showed up the NOC with four delt heads in his left shoulder. obviously he shot way too much synthol in his delt. he should go do powerlifting. that, and take muscletechs dick out of his ass.

------------------
In Quad We Trust.
||128.119.119.180||reg|| Z||000022||Serial Joe||05-15-2000||03:15 PM||||I agree about the not winning any shows part. That's disturbing and Muscletech should put some pressure on him to place well in at least one contest a year. Greg winning a major contest would give him a great deal more credibility. (and if they hadn't released that horrible video)

But as far as personal shots at Greg, I think it's pretty sad that half the guys here have to resort to it. Greg's actually a very nice guy, he trains hard, does his job and goes home at night just like the rest of us. Any of you would snatch up an offer for a job such as his with a major supplement company.

Paul Dillet is an asshole to his fans, freezes up on stage, has one 1 major contest and nobody says a thing (and he works for Met-Rx for fucks sake!!!).

Anyways my point is that Greg does what he has to, to pay the bills. Anyone who has lived in Canada knows that it's hard to be a pro and make a living through bodybuilding there. I'm certain that any of us would trade places with him in a second.

[This message has been edited by Serial Joe (edited May 15, 2000).]||209.167.129.28||reg|| Z||000023||bigguns 72||05-15-2000||08:51 PM||||In regards to serial joe's comments, kovac's stomach sticks out because of all the juice and gh and evrything else under the sun that he takes. This is known as stomach disenssion (sp??) The stomach walls are a muscle as well and they begin to grow just like all the other muscles. This is very evident on alot of the top pros when they are relaxed on stage and not sucking it in. Thats what i meant when i said kovacs was more of a gut builder. This same "look" was evident in Dorian Yates towards the end of his career. He had this "look" because he to was chemically fucked up. Do you think Yates retired because he was tired and neede d a rest?? He could not go on taking in the chemicals that made him a champ. It was killing him guaranteed. I am in no way against the juice and i am currently "on" but i'll be fucked if i am going to take so much that it makes my belly puff out rendering me looking like an untrained and out of shape person. Oh but i'll have 25" arms though!! BIG FUCKING DEAL.||24.66.238.121||reg|| Z||000024||Serial Joe||05-15-2000||10:34 PM||||Actually I'm pretty sure Dorian retired because of too many injuries and because he was becoming addicted to Nubain, also I think he wanted to spend some more time with his family and focus on Chemical. Only Dorian knows what he was taking, and I seriously doubt your any authority on why he retired.

Anyways I just think your fixation with Kovac's gut is purely envy at his overall size, so you pick a weak point and poke fun at it. If you're so non impressed by 26" arms, what are you sporting?

Hey I've got an idea, why don't we post a picture of you and a picture of Greg and we'll see who looks fat and untrained. Sound good? In other words, put up or shut the fuck up.

I'm sure myself and the other brothers on the board would like to see what makes you so great that you have to take cheap shots at someone who can't defend themself because they don't visit the board.

[This message has been edited by Serial Joe (edited May 15, 2000).]||209.183.136.54||reg|| Z||000025||GOWZER||05-15-2000||10:37 PM||dcitydave@aol.com||i agree with big guns most of these pros today look ridicilous with these gh guts,id rather not be big if thats how id look.all mr .olympias retire after several years because of the shit joe feeds them.theyre fucking science projects,and with the use of synthol and implants and gh,theyve lost all credibelity.i hate to say this but what happened to the good old days when bodybuilders would just juice.the shit being used today is insane.and i would never change places with kovaks,i want to be alive at 40.and i dont want to have a $100,000 a year gear habit.||152.163.194.209||reg|| Z||000026||Serial Joe||05-15-2000||10:55 PM||||Gowzer, I agree on that point. I prefer the look of Arnold or Menzter from the mid to late 70's anyday over todays pro's. Nowdays there's no weak bodyparts that pump n pose doesn't cure. But $100 000 a year on AS and GH? That's not even close to being a reasonably accurate guess. Fuck most pros might go through $20 000 at MOST. But 5 times that?

I'm just pointing out that okay big deal Greg Kovacs uses GH and yeah it shows. The guys is 350lbs + of quality mass and some nobody on a message board questions his credibility because what?, some guy at his gym met Greg during the offseason and thought his gut was a little big? Give me a break! Sad thing is he'd never dare say that to Greg's face, so why do we have to read about it?

Bigguns if it makes you feel any better, yes Greg Kovacs will never win Mr. O, for the same reason Lou Ferrigno never won. But then again neither will you. And you'll never have a chance to make anywheres the money Greg makes or lift anywheres near the weight Greg does. So who is better off? Well let's see, Greg retires in a 5 years, goes off juice shrinks down to his pre-juice size of 250lbs, and lives to be 60-70 with his wife Kim and the hundreds of thousands he's put away and invested. He's set for life! You? Well you'd be lucky to do as well.

But then again, like I've said everyone on the internet is 260lbs ripped all year long, powerlifts a combined 1700 and doesn't use supplements and instead just eats food and uses AS.

Yeah right.||209.183.136.54||reg|| Z||000027||Will B.Huge||05-15-2000||11:37 PM||neilscho@yahoo.com||Say what you want about Kovac's but he is fuckin huge and everyone of us would love to be his size, if MT paid me the money they are paying him I would say anything, you would be crazy not too, think about it this guy never has to compete alnd makes more money than most of the best pro's, so who is the idiot.
Will||207.179.186.166||reg|| Z||000028||GOWZER||05-15-2000||11:42 PM||dcitydave@aol.com||good comments will and serial joe..||152.163.194.209||reg|| Z||000029||bigguns 72||05-16-2000||12:04 AM||||"The money Greg Kovac's makes." It sounds like you guys are willing to put your body through anything to make a buck. Granted there is no way i am any where near the size of kovacs obviously. I am currently 5"11 and 230lbs. This may not sound like much but i am proud of what i acomplished as i started with a 170lb frame at 18 and i am now 28 years old. That is irrelevant though. What is relevant is that Kovacs is a pro making money from the sport of bodybuilding and is in the spotlight. With this comes criticism. There are pros that enter real contests and don't have the gh gut that he does. These pros are content with training and competing rather than being walking friggin science experiments to the extreme of Mr. kovacs, which if backed by a major company like mt, they could do the same thing as kovacs which is place shitty, be a walking chemical factory and probably be dead in 15 to 20 years. but there some that don't give a shit like yourself and would shoot anything under the sun for a buck. "Show me the chemicals and show me the money" nice attitude. ||24.66.238.121||reg|| Z||000030||Serial Joe||05-16-2000||09:03 AM||||Yes, but how do you know what Greg is taking? For all you know he could be on a Lee Priest type cycle. You're taking shots at him based on rumours and heresy. Kovacs was well known before he even got into bodybuilding. In his hometown of Fonthill he was "famous" because of his natural freakish size. Everyone thought he would be in the NFL. There's no way that GH and gear are solely (stress that word) repsonsible for Kovacs physique, and theres no need for him to take life threatening dosages. I doubt he takes any more than someone like Joko Ahola or Magnus Samuelsson. Are both of those men walking science experiments? I think not. Besides to you think MuscleTech would allow Greg to consume potentially life threatening dosages? Of course not, they've invested millions around Greg's image and well being.

I think you're too hung up on what you assume the pros are taking, when realistically you don't have a clue. ||209.167.129.18||reg|| Z||000031||GOWZER||05-18-2000||03:38 PM||dcitydave@aol.com||bump||205.188.198.31||reg||