TRT ? Doc says no

[Adamiano311]

Hey guys here are my stats and blood work.

41 years old
5'8" clean diet 12 percent bf and weigh 160

Blood work from recent test
Sex hormone binding GLOB - HCCL 32
Free androgen index (test shbg) 45.3
Testosterone total 418
Tsh ultra-sensitive 3rd generation 1.10

I feel sluggish a lot I workout 5-6 days a week heavy. I just can't put any muscle mass on anymore. Had a diet trainer etc. low sex drive at times. But my doc says I am normal. I should also mention I have a rare disease called cluster headaches and when going through a cycle test drops to almost zero. Several docs are using trt to keep them away. But general doc says he won't do it for me because my test is normal. The lab uses a range of 132-813.

I have read I am on the low side for even a 50 year old man. In fact my doc said I am above average. But from everything I have been reading and finding on here I seem to be low.

Thnx to all who respond. I am actually thinking of getting some test c and hcg and self prescribing and medicating depending on what more research I come across. Oh and also was going to get an AI as well.

 

[super-duty1]

418 is not terrible. I was at 260 at 46. I am sure some more experienced guys will chime in. My bet they would suggest some supps.

Sent from my SPH-L900 using EliteFitness

 

[Zyglamail]

I was in the 200's as well.

Most normal docs use lab numbers as a guide and not the sides of low test so if your going to pursue it you will need to find an anti-aging clinic.

 

[icedemon]

I don't think even a anti-aging/HRT clinic would give him test if he is at 418. 418 is actually not that bad (not great, but not bad). I'm 46 and mine was in the 200s. If you want to increase test, you'll have to do it yourself. I don't think any doc out there will give it to you at 418. They go by what the labs say are low and most lab companies won't give a 418 as lower then normal value.

You can try taking D-Aspartic Acid (DAA) if you want to go the legal route. Not sure how much it would raise it if it even does raise it.

 

[Liquid 2009]

It varies from each doctor. You may find one that just reads the numbers and if its in "normal" range, then won't do anything for you no matter how you feel. There are others that while you may be in the low-mid normal they will still prescribe you an amount and adjust accordingly to get you to a higher normal range.

I was in the low 400's. My doctor expressed that it depends on your baseline. If your body had a baseline of 500-600 then when you are at 300-400, you may feel the effects of low T.

Anti aging clinics typically have the mentality of getting you to a higher normal.

 

[gjohnson5]

7 keto-dHEA , D-apartic Acid and Mucina Prunins helped me
Just started Serrapeptase on an empty stomach today for healthy anti inflammatory response

Forgot to add the Mucina Prunins should be 99% l-dopa
You can also use DIM for estrogen control

 

[Adamiano311]

I should have mentioned something else. This isn't just for TRT - it kind of is. I have a very rare disorder called Cluster headaches. It makes my T levels bounce around all over the place. This disorder is because of a deformity on the hypothalamus. So when I go through a cluster cycle (every 8 months) my T levels are so far down it isn't even funny. Like in the 100 range. Then the next day they could be up to 300 then the next low again. It has issues sending the pituitary gland the right signals. It is the most pain ever documented that is how severe it is. What is worse is that my cycles last for 8 weeks. The bad part is the off label drugs that they use to treat them that only work on some cycles. Some of these drugs are verapamil, depakote, lithium, endomethacin, prednisone, and heavy amounts of injectable imitrex. The only thing thy have found that really works sometimes is LSD, Shrooms, and TRT. I find it hard to grow and get shrooms. I won't do LSD. And i won't take meds anymore. I was at 200 pounds of pure fat 1 year ago. I am now 160 and 12 percent BF.

I think it has to do more with insurance and my docs not wanting to communicate. I did find a doc in the mid west and has been giving me good advice. So I have gone off grid and started last week. In 5 weeks I will get labs done and give him the results. He said this usually will only work if i can get my T levels up to the 800 or higher range.

Here is an article about this treatment.

Testosterone replacement therapy for treatment refractory cluster headache.
Stillman MJ.
Source
Department of Neurology, Cleveland Clinic Foundation, 9500 Euclid Avenue, OH 44195, USA.
Abstract
OBJECTIVES:
To describe the clinical characteristics and laboratory findings of cluster headache patients whose headaches responded to testosterone replacement therapy.
BACKGROUND:
Current evidence points to hypothalamic dysfunction, with increased metabolic hyperactivity in the region of the suprachiasmatic nucleus, as being important in the genesis of cluster headaches. This is clinically borne out in the circadian and diurnal behavior of these headaches. For years it has been recognized that male cluster headache patients appear overmasculinized. Recent neuroendocrine and sleep studies now point to an association between gonadotropin and corticotropin levels and hypothalamically entrained pineal secretion of melatonin.
RESULTS:
Seven male and 2 female patients, seen between July 2004 and February 2005, and between the ages of 32 and 56, are reported with histories of treatment resistant cluster headaches accompanied by borderline low or low serum testosterone levels. The patients failed to respond to individually tailored medical regimens, including melatonin doses of 12 mg a day or higher, high flow oxygen, maximally tolerated verapamil, antiepileptic agents, and parenteral serotonin agonists. Seven of the 9 patients met 2004 International Classification for the Diagnosis of Headache criteria for chronic cluster headaches; the other 2 patients had episodic cluster headaches of several months duration. After neurological and physical examination all patients had laboratory investigations including fasting lipid panel, PSA (where indicated), LH, FSH, and testosterone levels (both free and total). All 9 patients demonstrated either abnormally low or low, normal testosterone levels. After supplementation with either pure testosterone in 5 of 7 male patients or combination testosterone/estrogen therapy in both female patients, the patients achieved cluster headache freedom for the first 24 hours. Four male chronic cluster patients, all with abnormally low testosterone levels, achieved remission.
CONCLUSIONS:
Abnormal testosterone levels in patients with episodic or chronic cluster headaches refractory to maximal medical management may predict a therapeutic response to testosterone replacement therapy. In the described cases, diurnal variation of attacks, a seasonal cluster pattern, and previous, transient responsiveness to melatonin therapy pointed to the hypothalamus as the site of neurological dysfunction. Prospective studies pairing hormone levels and polysomnographic data are needed.

 

[Adamiano311]

Sorry - I should have explained more on why I wanted to try this route. It may sound crazy - but it is better than other treatments and alternatives.

 

[zedhed]

Well IMO not crazy at all. Tell me one good reason that we should not feel the way we did in High School. Randy as a goat and on top of the world all the time. Why not? Just be safe and keep up on your bloods and keep with that Dr from the Mid West that is kind enough to help you out. Best of luck to you bro and FEEL GOOD!

 

[ceo]

Dr. Crisler?