Hrt clomid and estrogen blocker

[badguysingh]

Im 28 years old i did 4 steroid cycles from age of 23-26 . Im 6 2" 215 . i didnt do good ptc or didnt recover before my next cycle. been a Low-T guy for da past 2 years. didnt want 2 get on testosterone and wanted my body 2 produce testosterone on its own nd try everythin before i make a life long commitment 2 go on TRT. i wanted to try everythin 2 bring my levels up .i did 3 blood tests in 6 months my levels were 350 then 325 then the third test 250. Now doc has me on 50 mg Clomid daily and .25 anastanzol/DIM twice a week. i been on this 4 45 days and i did a blood test my testosterone levels came back 1050. now hes gonna have me do 50 mg clomid every other day nd .25 anastanzol/DIM twice a week. then slowly drop the dose after a month and after another month stop completely and hopefully my levels stay in normal range. If they dont then i will be on HRT clomid long term. wat do u guys think. I feel way better mentally sexually and over all im in a positive mood when i started did regimine. I have no side effects on these meds . Jus wanted 2 hear experience guys inputs etc.. wat u guys think.

 

[Zyglamail]

At your age I suspect low T is due to other issues. Namely nutrient (electron) deficiencies that have put your body in a state of suboptimal performance. Reduced thyroid function is one of the major causes of low T but 99% of docs wont even consider thyroid being an issue if your labs show your in the normal range but being in the normal range for thyroid is much like test levels. How you fee when you tests is 300 compared to 900 is a huge difference and the same applies to the thyroid.

If you want to avoid TRT you need to stop looking to drugs as the answer. Drugs can kill bacteria/viruses OR address symptoms but they DO NOT cure anything. For your body to function optimally you have to make sure the nutrients you eat get into your system by addressing any intestinal pathogens you may have, next look at addressing your toxic load and finally systematically start adding in nutrients for optimal function.

Take a look at the yound and low T thread sticky at the top of this forum.

 

[badguysingh]

I had my thyroid check along with alot of other shit but everythin came bak normal except 4 lil bit hdl/ldl high low but everythib else seemed fine and i dont have any tyroid symptoms. i see u really pushin this tyroid stuff on other ppls post 2. do u have tyroid problem. Or how do u determine u have a tyroid problem if da test dosent work ???

 

[Zyglamail]

I had my thyroid check along with alot of other shit but everythin came bak normal except 4 lil bit hdl/ldl high low but everythib else seemed fine and i dont have any tyroid symptoms. i see u really pushin this tyroid stuff on other ppls post 2. do u have tyroid problem. Or how do u determine u have a tyroid problem if da test dosent work ???

Normal...really, what is normal, explain it to me. If you buy that your thyroid function is normal without a question why are you questioning test levels? They are within some lab ranges.

I really dont understand why the concept is so hard to understand. Low test just doesnt happen that often, especially at your age, its a symptom of a bigger problem. inability to lose fat is a symptom yet I have people tell me all the time they need drugs (AAS, GH, clen, T3) to help lose weight and their thyroid is fine.

You sit here and tell me you dont have any symptoms of hypo thyroid yet you have low test levels which is exactly a symptom of underfunctioning thyroid.

Lab test ranges are simply the high and low end values from "seemingly" healthy people. There is no true scientific validity to the numbers at all.

I find it so ironic people on this forum want every last point of testosterone they can get when they get labs done and if its on the low end of the range they flip the fuck out yet dont even question the thyroid levels.

Lab range for T3 is what 100 - 200 ng/dL? The difference between having a level of 125 and 175 is MAJOR, its like the difference between having a test level of 300 VS 900 however on paper, to a doctor your "Fine" with either number.

Whats your T3 history look like? has it always been where its at or has it declined and whats its correlation been to your test levels? Just because your in lab range how do you know its functioning optimally?

As for your question about me having thyroid issues, on paper, according to the doctors, no I dont. However I also have low test (but higher than yours and I am over 20 years older) and have a hard time losing fat. Both of which are symptoms of an underfunctioning thyroid. Since addressing my nutritional shortcomings with supplementation (nothing fancy mind you, just basic vitamins/minerals) I have reduced skin fold measurements in core by over 50% in 10 weeks WITHOUT changing my diet or exercise routine. If my thyroid was functioning OPTIMALLY then why would I have a hard time losing core body fat? And why all of a sudden is it melting away with not diet or exercise changes? Whats further interesting is that while the fat is melting away, the number on the scale has not dropped and I am consistantly getting stronger in the gym where as for a while I had hit a plateau.

These forums are filled with people who cant easily lose fat, have low test and a myriad of other symptoms of a low functioning thyroid. Thats why I am always pointing out its importance, because most people here are fucking clueless and I am trying to clue them in.

Doctors dont work in the "grey" area of suboptimal, docs are break fix and if it isnt causing a clinical disease that can be easily named and fixed or get a drug thrown at it (which is regulated by FDA) then they are out of their league, its not what they learned in school.

You can question my motives all you want, but I dont have a dog in this fight. Im not selling any products, im not charging anyone a consulting fee and im not a rep for any sponsor.

This country (dare I say world) medical practice and the health of its people has gone to hell for many reasons, one of which is simply personal responsibility in ones health. These forums are flooded with people who dont even understand the basics of human anatomy, how the organs tie together and the importance of nutrients yet they haphazardly throw together hormone cycles half assed and wonder why they get gyno.

To make an analogy the forums are filled with a bunch of grade schoolers who want to take a bunch of college courses.

If you spend enough time searching the web you can find hundreds if not thousands of accounts of people with clinically normal thyroids (ie levels in normal range) yet they have a myriad of symptoms and the doctors have blown them off because their "isnt a problem". Many of these accounts simply stop and the people succumb to poor medical practices and their own laziness. However, many arent going to succumb to mediocrity and they arent willing to accept there isnt anything wrong when the way they feel tells them differently. Many of these people have "fixed" themselves and gotten rid of many or all of their symptoms. They increased sex hormone levels, sleep better, we able to drop that extra weight that no amount of exercise of dieting would get rid of and the list goes on.

On a side note, the fact you have high cholesterol at age 24 is another indicator not everything is "normal". Your 24, have high choletserol and low test and you think everything is just fine?

Just to reiterate the labs tests are there to identify extremes (ie over/under lab range for "normal"). When a value comes back over/under then its a clear indicator for the doctor and usually results in them throwing prescription meds at you. Anything within the normal range gets blown off unless there are significant amount of other symptoms that just cant be ignored.

 

[badguysingh]

First of all i want 2 thank u 4 taking da time 2 reply bak and going into detail and explaining all of this 2 me. i intention were not 2 question u or anything i was ju asking a question. Im really sorry if u felt that way bro.i had my TSH checked and not T3 . I will tell my doctor 2 order me test 4 T3 . Is there anythin else i should ask 2 get tested 4. just T3 or T4 also? And if my T3 does come bak not normal wat should i do and do i h e 2 b on meds 4 ever or do i take something 4 some months? And u also talke about ur situtation were usaid u took vitamins 4 ur tyroid nd 2 loose fat and ur weight didnt drop. If u could help me out . and i have been told by my doc and have read alot of post online and in this website on ppls posts that pretty much ppl with LOW T have messed up HDL & LDL. i would appreciate ur help. again i didnt have much knowledge in this stuff so i was asking a question i didnt mean 2 question ur knowledge. Sorry again. GOD bless

 

[badguysingh]

ZYgmai r u on trt or hrt currently?

 

[Zyglamail]

All your hormones have effects on others so invariably when one goes south they all go south.

I wouldnt waste any time with labs, if your TSH is within range you T3 and T4 likely will be as well. You have to realize I am not talking about your thyroid being broken I am talking about it not functioning at peak efficiency. Broken would be where your producing clinically via labs too much or too little T3 causing nasty, easily observed side effects.

Its really difficult to target just one organ with supplements, you generally need to address full body sufficiency of all vitamins and minerals and over time things will come back in line. I generally start with the thyroid because it has such a large impact on other hormones produced.

The first thing you have to realize is your doctors knows little to nothing about nutritional supplements and most dont even believe you can avoid disease with supplementation, its simply not what they are taught in medical school and there is a stigma that comes from going down that path so doctors often times simply avoid the subject.

Iodine is the main component of thyroid hormones, our FDA says we only need 150mcg per day. This conclusion is based on the fact that 150mcg a day is enough to avoid goiter but many organs in the body including the skin use a lot of iodine. Many functional medicine practitioners test for iodine sufficiency in their practice and test all new clients for it. out of thousands of patients tested over 90% of them come back as iodine deficient. This is one more reason I am so quick to point out the thyroid, 90% of the population is deficient in iodine which directly effects the bodies ability to properly create T hormones.

For me the key to getting my thyroid on track was to supplement with iodine. Its a tricky process because in the abcense of iodine the body stored flouride and bromide, both of which are toxins. So when you start taking iodine you start knocking these toxins out of your body. This often challenges your bodies normal toxin elimination pathways and causes some side effects, the more toxic you are the worse the sides. These side effects get people scared and the stop supplementing iodine but the truth is the sides are detox symptoms and not the iodine itself.

The japanese population gets about 12mg a day of iodine and are as a culture healthier than the US. In the US, the FDA says the upper safe limit of iodine consumption is 400mcg. If anything more is not safe then why are the japanese healthier? They should all be dieing from iodine poisoning right?

Take a look at the sticky young and low T at the top of this forum, it outlines general supps to take.

To specifically address the thyroid I would add in iodine. Its estimated by some the body needs approx 12mg of iodine a day to stay sufficient. Now the form is important and I would recommend a lugols solution or Iadoral tablets. They both come in different strengths and how much you take will have a direct impact on your progress. Keep in mind however you are likely (probably a 90% chance) your deficient. so not only do you need 12mg a day or so for optimal function you need extra to build up your bodies stores. If you just take the 12mg it could take years for you to reach full body sufficiency. So the recommended approach is to take enough to not cause horrible side effects but enough that you are replenishing it at a rate faster than a few years. The starting dose generally recommended is 50mg a day.

if you get the lugols solution you can actually paint a spot about the size of a silver dollar on your inner arm, let it dry and then just keep an eye on it over the next 24 hours (dont shower or you will rinse it off). The speed at which its absorbed by the body is a decent indicator of how deficient you are. If you still have a fairly dark circle 24 hours after application then your iodine levels are likely pretty good. However I am guessing it will disappear in less than a few hour indicating your fairly deficient.

Iodine, like most nutrients doesnt work in a vacuum. There are not a lot of official high dose studies on iodine supplementation and the ones that do exist often have mixed results. These mixed results are because they are using iodine only and not looking at the big picture. Iodine is a main building block for the T hormones but your body cant convert T4 to T3 without a selenium based enzyme. Depending on your diet and where you live you could be very selenium deficient in addition to being iodine deficient and supplementing either one without the other can actually make things worse.

Most multivitamins contain 100-150mcg of selenium and that may be enough IF you eat a lot of selenium rich foods. However in my research I have found that its rarely enough and most people who take iodine and only selenium in their mutli usually notice immediate benefits from iodine but then start to have various sides of hypothyroidism. This would be a good indicator you simply need more selenium, ideally in the form of Selenomethionine. Boron is also a good addition, personally I use "triple boron" 3mg 3 times a day.

Common side effects of the flouride/bromide detox are cold/flue like symptoms, acne (as toxins get pushed to the surface), sore throat and headaches. Taking 1/4 to 1/2 Tbsp of UNREFINED salt and dissolving it in a cup of warm-hot water and drinking it followed by 12-16oz filtered water helps to detox and usually offers fairly quick and substantial relief to the symptoms, especially headache.

Some people start slow with a drop of lugols 5% (6mg) and work their way up to 50mg, others jump in with both feet and hit 50mg right away, the choice is yours. Just remember the more you take the more likely you will have detox symptoms but that also means you will likely flush the bad stuff out faster so its your choice on how to proceed.

Assuming you get up to 50mg iodine, id run that for 3-6 months. Then take an iodine loading test to determine where you at. For a little extra you can have them test for bromide as well. Simply google "Iodine loading test" for places that do it. If you have lugols you could also paint the spot on your arm to get an idea of how things are progressing but ideally the loading test is the way to go. Once you reach sufficiency cut back to 12mg a day (2 drops lugols 5% or 12mg Iadoral tablet).

When you start to take iodine and selenium it can really alter your thyroid lab tests, especially TSH which is a very poor indicator of thyroid health anyway. TSH rises to increase thyroglobulin which binds to the increased Iodine in the blood stream to create thyroid hormones T4 and T3. So I would go more by how you feel than any lab work. I wouldnt even bother with labs until you have verified iodine sufficiency with a loading test.

As for cholesterol, it serves many purposes. Hormones are simply chemical messengers and often one will cause the release of another or the body to produce other elements. Cholesterol is the building block of most hormones so when you have low hormone levels it often causes a rise on cholesterol so the basic building block is there to produce more. Cholesterol is also a secondary line of defense for arterial wall damage. The body need large doses of vitamin C and lysine to repair arterial walls (to repair all collagen based material actually) and when that is lacking cholesterol is used as a temporary patch. However since we are chronically deficient in vitamin C the temporary path never goes away and instead collects more cholesterol. This is refereed to as heart disease or cardiovascular disease. Cholesterol is blamed but in truth its a vitamin C deficiency and the clotting is totally reversible in most cases. Cholesterol as also use by the body to carry toxins and help with detoxing. An increased cholesterol level could indicate toxicity levels above what your body can readily remove. Generally speaking as the iodine flushed out toxins and you supplement with vitamin C and lysine as I recommend in low T post all of these things start to come in line but before doing so can often cause some crazy fluctuations in lab work.

When vitamin C and lysine (in the large amounts I recommended) are supplemented the arterial damage starts to get repaired and the built up cholesterol acting as a bandaid gets freed up. This will cause a temporary spike in cholesterol numbers that will subside as the damage gets repaired and excess cholesterol gets metabolized. The above processes can take some time depending on toxity, deficiency, arterial damage etc etc.

As to your question, Im on TRT but I hope to get off it one day as I bring my body to nutrient sufficiency.

 

[MaxxReps]

I don't have anything to add but just want to say that Zyglamail you are a wealth of knowledge and have a unique perspective on things and I'm following your posts with keen interest. Thank you for sharing with us.

 

[Elrock]

Great post Zyglamail!

 

[badguysingh]

Thanks bro