Advice/Guidance for a 68yo HRT wanting to cycle

[krazolddude]

Howdy!

I'm looking for advice and guidance for someone my age. I'll be 68 next month. The guys at my gym are mostly in their 20s and 30s and can't really advise someone in my age group. So that's why I'm here... hoping someone can help me out.

Background:

I've been working out hard and constantly since 2012. Prior to that I had no interest in athletics at all. But, I've really gotten into it! I've made some muscle gains, lost body fat. Used to way over 250lbs. Am currently 194 (have been as low as 185).

I began (street) HRT back in April of this year, after a year of severe depression. I tried to get HRT medically but my Dr's said my T wasn't low "for someone my age" (275 ng/dL). Now I'm doing 100mg Test-E twice a week. This has helped my mood, focus, fat loss, muscle gain, overall energy, etc., tremendously. Love it! I don't enjoy injecting but I do like the results.

Doing this has caused an 'itch'... don't know how else to explain it. I feel I *want* to do a real cycle and am willing to put in the gym work to make it worth while. I'm NOT looking to become a competitive BBer. I just enjoy working out, feeling the pump, energy, the 'spring' it puts in my step. SO... I'm wanting to do MORE. But what? And how to do it safely given my age and being relatively new to working out.

Stats: 5'9.5". 194lbs. About 25%/26% body fat, most of it visceral in my abdomen. By contrast, the veins in my hands and arms are very visible. I've been working on my diet and I mostly eat clean but, TBH, I'm a sugar addict and it is very difficult for me to avoid binging on starchy sweets (emotional eater). My legs are in great shape. Powerful. I walk (fast) to gym, my office, at least a mile, sometimes 5 miles a day. I workout four days a week. I do a bit of cardio (20 minutes) after every workout. I vary the workout (make it up from reading stuff online) but it usually consists of 1 day of each: Heavy Pull, Heavy Push, Light Pull, Light Push (light meaning lighter weight, higher reps).

I do deadlifts and squats almost every workout day as part of my warm up. I try to squat deep but my posture isn't perfect so I usually keep them light, around 120lbs. Occasionally I'll go over 140 but that feels 'scary' to me. My deadlift has been increasing. Still light compared to these young dudes but, hey, for me to DL 285 is a PB and I'm happy! Love the way both these jack me up. Heart rate goes back to normal very fast. Had a full cardio work-up earlier this year and my cardiovascular system is in great shape. Perfect BP, too.

Alright... so... what I want is to loose fat (I know, mostly a diet issue) and gain muscle. (Duh!, LOL!) I want to push my body as hard as I can. I want to see what I can REALLY do. I figure a 10 (or more?) week cycle of Test-E at, oh, 500mg (250 twice a week or 125 every other day?) would be a good start?

But, that's what I don't know... am I crazy to want to start cycling at my age? Just to be clear, I don't want to kill myself. That said, I don't have a family, and don't want to live to be some slobbering 90 year old, either. So, the way I look at it, I got maybe 10 good years left? YOLO, and for me, that's not going to be much longer. I want to make the best of it!

Any suggestions on links I should read, who here is knowledgable about old folk, etc., would be greatly appreciated!

Oh, and Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you all!

 

[George Spellwin]

Welcome to EF and happy holidays! You're never to old to juice, and there are some guys in their 60s who do so. Sounds like you have a pretty reasonable beginner cycle picked out too.

But the one concern about your situation is your body fat percentage. It sounds like you're relatively healthy, but 25% is pretty high to start using steroids. It'd be good if you could cut out the sugar/sweets and get down to at least 15% body fat before doing a steroid cycle.

 

[krazolddude]

Welcome to EF and happy holidays! You're never to old to juice, and there are some guys in their 60s who do so. Sounds like you have a pretty reasonable beginner cycle picked out too.

But the one concern about your situation is your body fat percentage. It sounds like you're relatively healthy, but 25% is pretty high to start using steroids. It'd be good if you could cut out the sugar/sweets and get down to at least 15% body fat before doing a steroid cycle.

Thanks, George, I'm sure that is excellent advice. It's just a matter of doing it. I know *how* to do it, I'm just not disciplined in this area. That said, I'm taking your advice seriously and will work at it for the next month or so.

 

[musclemom]

You posted in Masters so I'm going to play Dutch uncle (or aunt) ... my husband will soon be 62 and I was the one that encouraged him to go onto TRT over 10 years ago for virtually identical symptoms to yours with nearly identical blood levels of testosterone. The big difference is that when his GP recommended an antidepressant I got copies of the blood work, figured out what was up, and then sent him to an anti-aging doctor (actually a former board certified GP/cardiologist who took up hormone therapy in his later career). GPs are idiots when it comes to understanding hormones.

You're almost 70. You're taking HRT without a doctor's supervision. You mentioned nothing about blood work or other health monitoring. You're setting yourself up for possible catastrophe. You're already doing the equivalent of a weak cycle taking 200 mg of test a week. Of course you're going to get an itch, you're going to get all sorts of itches! If my husband took that amount it'd be like living with an 18 year old, and not in a good way. Until he got his dose dialed in there was a few times he was acting like a teenager (driving stupid, getting short tempered) I had to point out he was thinking with his hormones, not his head.

Not to mention that messing with your hormones without monitoring what's regularly monitoring your health in the form of regular physicals and particularly blood work can be a recipe for disaster. Doing a cycle at your age without knowing what your complete physical condition is could be asking to keel over with a stroke or worse. Hormones affect everything from your blood pressure to liver function, cholesterol levels and other hormone levels. Out of balance hormones -- which is what you get when you cycle -- frequently affect your various body systems negatively. It's a lot easier to bounce back from that stuff when you're young. Our bodies aren't so resilient as we age.

If you don't want to bother finding an antiaging doctor and doing things the safe way, then at least get yourself to an Any Lab Test now and get a full blood panel including hormones, CBC and a fasting cholesterol and learn what those values mean.

Look, I'm not trying to be a wet blanket, I'm just warning you that you're playing with dynamite.

Oh, and if you want to cut the fat, cut out the carbs. My husband, who thinks the only 4 letter word in the English language is Exercise, effortlessly lost about 40 lbs. going on the ketogenic diet.

 

[krazolddude]

...If you don't want to bother finding an antiaging doctor and doing things the safe way, then at least get yourself to an Any Lab Test now and get a full blood panel including hormones, CBC and a fasting cholesterol and learn what those values mean.

Look, I'm not trying to be a wet blanket, I'm just warning you that you're playing with dynamite....

Thanks Musclemom. I'm going to have to look into this further. I don't *want* to be doing this absent regular blood work but I've never been sure how to go about getting that blood work without potentially loosing my insurance. Googling I find the closest "Any Lab Test Now" is in Las Vegas (I'm in California) .. so that isn't going to happen. Any other suggestions?

I *was* (briefly) getting TRT therapy through "Ageless Men's Health" but then they stopped accepting my insurance and I can't afford the monthly cost without insurance.

Again, thank you for your advice.

ETA: To musclemom: I do have a regular GP and do have regular physicals. I recently underwent out-patient surgery to correct an umbilical hernia (I still have another three weeks before I can begin lifting again). I confess to not being super knowledgable about reading blood tests and understanding all the variables re hormone replacement. However, I do have access to the tests I have had and most makers come back in the normal range. The one exception of concern is the LDL to HDL (as of April last year): HDL 34 mg/d (L); LDL 119 mg/dL (H); Cholesterol to HDL Ratio 5.2 (Standard: 1.00-4.50). LDL:HDL Ratio 3.50 (Standard 1.00-3.50).

My last CDC was on 12/7 this year and the only flag was RDW at 17.2%. Everything else was well within Standard ranges.

Also, as I said, I had a full cardiovascular panel run by a cardiologist last year who said there was only a slight plaque build up in one area. Nothing he seemed concerned about (knowing that my intention was to begin TRT).

Since your post I've also been looking into blood testing without a Dr's note. They seem to run from $60 up to $500 depending on the test. Obviously I'd much prefer these tests be covered by my Medicare. I'm just not sure how to go about making that happen. I feel like I need a Dr. who is willing to work WITH me (and I'm very sure my current GP is not).

 

[musclemom]

I'm literally on the opposite end of the world, east coaster. I did a quick search. You want to find "direct to consumer blood testing" for lab work.

Like I said, GPs (or PCPs, family doctors, whatever you call them) are ummm, kind of useless, especially when it comes to endocrine stuff, they simply cannot advise you. You must educate yourself. Keep reading different forums. Research "ANDROPAUSE" and "testosterone replacement".

If you're trying to do this and get Medicare to pay ... blech. TRT is NOT something Medicare wants to get involved with. Our HRT doctor doesn't accept any health insurance and we pay cash, it adds up so I feel you. My husband is still working but his company switched to high deductible insurance and we get ass raped on specialist visits (kills us since I have arthritis). Anyway, like I said, research and education. You don't need a doctor if you're willing to do the research and can find a source to do regular blood draws. That's really what it comes down to, do the research, educate yourself, pay cash for blood work, interpret the results yourself OR find a physician to do the leg work for you.

The fact is the insurance industry (Medicare is in there) does NOT want us to feel well (or be well) as we age. They want us taking antidepressants, walking around like zombies until we have the courtesy to die. You don't need to be that way, but you need to own it somehow, by either finding a good doctor OR learning how to be your own doctor.

And yeah, it does suck, but you have do have resources, with sites like EF and other BB oriented sites. And trust me, it could be worse ... you could be a woman. Way bigger juggling act.

And if you want to take the simple approach ... just cut your testosterone dosing to 100 mg of test every 7 to 10 days (basically in half, right?) and give yourself a month or so. You'll start thinking a little more clearly. Then you can just do basic health monitoring. The only real concern with normal testosterone supplementation is prostate cancer. After a certain age it's kind of a non-issue as long as there are no urinary problems.