Thyroid dangers in reality? -- EVERYONE VOTES

[gjohnson5]

Having PERSISTANT hyperglycemia will lead to insulin resistance, and if not put in check can lead to type II diabetes.

I want you to reread your own words. The highlighted word is PERSISTENT. So if a person does a 2 week to 1 month cycle at 50mcg what proof is there that the person will attain a significant amount of insulin resistance? Basically your trying to make the jump between a cycle of T3 and a chronic problem. You haven't posted any information which would lead me (or other apparantly) to believe that there is a connection between a cycle and a person with legitimate hyperthyroid.

The same is true about your bone loss issue. You study conducted on rats has little signifigance in this context when we are talking about humans.

If you have some information dealing with humans taking synthetic hormone and becoming diabetic , then I will read it with great interest and stop my cycle immediently.

 

[poantrex]

I want you to reread your own words. The highlighted word is PERSISTENT. So if a person does a 2 week to 1 month cycle at 50mcg what proof is there that the person will attain a significant amount of insulin resistance? Basically your trying to make the jump between a cycle of T3 and a chronic problem. You haven't posted any information which would lead me (or other apparantly) to believe that there is a connection between a cycle and a person with legitimate hyperthyroid.

The same is true about your bone loss issue. You study conducted on rats has little signifigance in this context when we are talking about humans.

If you have some information dealing with humans taking synthetic hormone and becoming diabetic , then I will read it with great interest and stop my cycle immediently.

 

[jpl26]

Ok, I found a rather interesting study on bodybuilders and T3 levels.

1: J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 1993 Apr;76(4):1069-71. Related Articles, Links


Ingestion of androgenic-anabolic steroids induces mild thyroidal impairment in male body builders.

Deyssig R, Weissel M.

Third Medical University Clinic, Vienna, Austria.

Self-administration of very high doses of androgenic anabolic steroids is common use in power athletes because of their favorable effect on performance. Since androgenic steroids decrease serum T4-binding globulin (TBG) concentrations dramatically, we were interested in the effects of this procedure on thyroid function: we performed TRH tests (200 micrograms Relefact, i.v.), with blood withdrawal before and for 180 min after injection, for determination, using RIA kits, of serum concentrations of total and free T4, total T3, TSH, and TBG in 13 young (20-29 yr old) male body builders with clinically normal thyroid glands, who were all in the same state of training. Five of these athletes admitted taking androgenic anabolic steroids at an average total dose of 1.2 g/week for at least 6 weeks before the tests. TBG, total T4, and total T3 were significantly (P < 0.001) decreased, whereas basal TSH and free T4 were not significantly different from the values of the other 8 without androgenic steroids. The maximum TSH increase after TRH administration (mean +/- SE, 16 -/+ 6 vs. 9 -/+ 4 mU/L; P < 0.05) was relatively increased, whereas the T3 response to TRH (0.61 -/+ 0.10 vs. 1.13 -/+ 0.13 nmol/L; P < 0.05) was relatively decreased in the group receiving androgens. The 5 patients taking androgens had significantly greater weight (114 vs. 90 kg; P < 0.01) and higher total cholesterol levels (6.3 -/+ 1.3 vs. 3.8 -/+ 0.3 mmol/L; P < 0.05) together with very low high density lipoprotein cholesterol levels (0.20 -/+ 0.03 vs. 1.03 -/+ 0.10; P < 0.001) than the controls. PRL levels were normal and similar in both groups. We conclude from our results that high dose androgenic anabolic steroid administration leads to a relative impairment (within the normal range) of thyroid function. Whether this is due to a direct thyroid hormone release (or synthesis?)-blocking effect of these steroids needs further investigation.

PMID: 8473383 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

The study was quite literally buried in Medline.

So AAS impair total T4 and Total T3, but have no effect on TSH and free T4.
It seems as though AAS block the T4-T3 conversion to a certain degree, which would explain the lowered T3 levels, yet normal TSH.
Also, HDL cholesterol went down(naturally...all AAS lower it), and prolactin levels stayed the same.

But take a look at the weight differential between the controls and the AAS group....114Kg vs 90Kg ( Or 256lbs vs 198lbs)...that sure is a lot.

Therefore, IMO adding a 12.5mcg dose of T3 with your AAS cycle is more than likely a good idea, in order to bring T3 levels back up to normal. Lowered T3 levels enduce lethargy btw.

 

[poantrex]

Fonz, Some AAS will lower total T4 and T3, but T3 And T4 resin uptake will be higher. Free T3 and Free T4 also generally remain the same. Thyroxine binding globulin also will be lower during AAS use. There are studies that have shown this. So most AAS have no signifigant impact on thyroid function, with the exception of oxandrolone which can lower thyroid function.

 

[ocisbomb]

This is an awesome thread.. jpl26, it say's you're 'banned' and I hope that's a mistake or joke, because you kick ass. Poantrex too, your debate is exactly the kind of thing we need around here. Solid, cutting edge discussion regarding issues that affect all of us.

Keep kicking ass. Let me know what the final conclusion is. Maybe make a post when you guys come to an agreement, because I even had trouble following EVERYTHING that was said, I'm guessing a lot of people are struggling too.

Thanks!

 

[gjohnson5]

This is an awesome thread.. jpl26, it say's you're 'banned' and I hope that's a mistake or joke, because you kick ass. Poantrex too, your debate is exactly the kind of thing we need around here. Solid, cutting edge discussion regarding issues that affect all of us.

Keep kicking ass. Let me know what the final conclusion is. Maybe make a post when you guys come to an agreement, because I even had trouble following EVERYTHING that was said, I'm guessing a lot of people are struggling too.

Thanks!

As far as I can see the only real and OBJECTIVE danger is shutdown.
The other 3 issues
1. graves disease
2. bone loss
3. diabetes
are either hyperbole, like the 7 foot englishman tale in the movie Bravehart who had lightning bolts shooting out of his arse, or fiction.

 

[Armandinho C.]

When I used T3 and T4, I lost gains... don't liked this......
And i'm never saw peoples who have gains whit T3...

 

[poantrex]

As far as I can see the only real and OBJECTIVE danger is shutdown.
The other 3 issues
1. graves disease
2. bone loss
3. diabetes
are either hyperbole, like the 7 foot englishman tale in the movie Bravehart who had lightning bolts shooting out of his arse, or fiction.

Are you FUCKING stupid? Look at the fucking prescribing papers that come with american prescribed thyroxine or triiodothyronine sodium! They MENTION in the papers that thyroid meds are KNOWN to cause BONE LOSS/OSTEOPOROSIS, WEAKNING OF BONES, AND HIGHER BLOOD SUGAR. THAT IS AMONG OTHER SIGNIFIGANT SIDE EFFECTS.

OBIVOUSLY, FUCKING with exogenous hormones will cause a very high chance that normal hormone balance will not return to the level it was at previously. This is a very real danger that happens all the fucking time, and If you don't believe me ask all the guys in the HRT forum, that are on HRT because of steroid hormone use.

 

[H-isBack]

your thyroid will be supressed after T3 cycle, no matter what. thyroid is like a gland like other glands in the endocrine system it regulates its self throug negative feedback mechanisim. you can still deal with rebounds by using 7-keto, guggle, L-tyrosin. also you should increas you claoric intake slightly because diet supress the thyroid naturaly. Plus using AAS after finishing T3 cycle is a good idea, because your thyroid will be supressed so you wil burn less calorie, so the extra unburnned cals will be good with AAS to back muscle.

Sorry if i sound rude but could you explain the negative feedback loop - and how to deal with it, and how is AAS beneficial what you say makes no sense.
H

 

[todoveritas]

IMHO there is no such thing as "safe" use of Cytomel (T3) outside a medical setting. There is only "informed use" which minimizes risk. Consider the many other complications besides permanent thyroid suppression. Personally, I think the cardiac risks are the worst. Especially in the competitive setting: The K loss/diuretic use/metabolic probs compounded by clen/ECA stacks make the risk of arrhthymia very real.