Liquidex or Femera?

[fhg43]

I am planning a cycle and want to know how to clean it up. From my research I've read Femera is a better med, but I'd like some feedback with reasons why. Liquidex is a little cheaper.

I was planning on using 1-AD (a prohormone-2cycles of 6weeks with 4week break between). 1-AD has been compared to EQ-similar chemical structures I believe. Now no posts like 'andros suck etc...' 1-AD is a good supp and very effective especially for me. Here's the deal it doesn't aromatize so when on you have lots of test and little or none converts to estrogen. However you get a significant estrogen rebound afterwards. Clomid could help with this but would it be advisable to use liquidex or femera as well? Would using both suppress estrogen too much? Lack of estrogen isn't good-doesn'tthat contribute to lack of sex drive and lethargic feelings?

A little help would be great. I think this board has more experience with anti-e's like L-Dex and femera so I posted here.

FHG

 

[FullCircle]

I would go with liquidex. I read somewhere that femara has been shown to induce a aromtase rebound on cessation of use. BUT, I haven't seen any studies on this....so its basically just hear-say. In any case, anastrozole will be more than enough to satisfy your needs.

I didn't notice any sexual sides when taking femara off-cycle trying to lose some e2 fat deposits, but I did notice some joint pain (may have been coincidental).


-FC

 

[fhg43]

Alright I did a little more research and found Femera/Letrozole is better. It promotes increases in IGF-1 levels while Liquidex (arimidex actually) may reduce IGF-1 levels.

So would you use Femera/Letrozole in conjunction with an anabolic/non-aromatizing compound. Again I was shooting for a short 6 week cycle and was going to run Femera/Letrozole the last week and then for the 4 weeks until my other cycle started.

What about Femera/Letrozole dosage?

I was going to use the PNP 2.5mg/ml version. Any thoughts on that?

FHG

 

[Spoud]

Full Circle,

Do you have any SOLID PROOF where letrozole can actually cause aromatase rebound in cessation of its use?

I think aromatase use should be tapered down after the cycle anyway because let's say we use 0.5 mg arimidex or 1.25 mg letrozole ED during the cycle for 8 weeks and suddenly use NONE at week 9 during the clomid time, that will definitely cause rebound.

Please read this for comparison between letrozole and arimidex:

1>. http://www.pharma.ca.novartis.com/e/news/pr_29.shtml

2>. http://qualitycounts.com/drugs/breast_cancer/femara_letrozole.htm

 

[mvmaxx]

Please read this for comparison between letrozole and arimidex:

1>. http://www.pharma.ca.novartis.com/e/news/pr_29.shtml

2>. http://qualitycounts.com/drugs/breast_cancer/femara_letrozole.htm

Awesome read Spound. Great post. Karma 4 u.

 

[FullCircle]

Full Circle,

Do you have any SOLID PROOF where letrozole can actually cause aromatase rebound in cessation of its use?

I think aromatase use should be tapered down after the cycle anyway because let's say we use 0.5 mg arimidex or 1.25 mg letrozole ED during the cycle for 8 weeks and suddenly use NONE at week 9 during the clomid time, that will definitely cause rebound.

Please read this for comparison between letrozole and arimidex:

1>. http://www.pharma.ca.novartis.com/e/news/pr_29.shtml

2>. http://qualitycounts.com/drugs/breast_cancer/femara_letrozole.htm

No, which is specifically why I said "BUT, I haven't seen any studies on this....so its basically just hear-say". Perhaps I should have been more clear to just take that with a grain of salt.

I think there is a 1995 study by Klein KO, et al. that hinted at elevated E levels after 6 weeks of use (compared to initial suppression) that may be answered by higher aromatase production....but I don't know. To repeat, no, no proof, just remembering something I read, and don't know the source. I still feel that the anastrozole would be fine.

I use the PnP letrozole, does taste like crap, so I just put it in the gel caps they offer.

-FC

 

[HotYngSwngr]

I have recently started taking pnp letrozole as well...1ml eod, injected into gel caps...tried taking with a juice chaser and it is quite possibly the worst tasting stuff I have ever tried to take...

 

[Nutri-Wrestler]

Femera is better, but if your poor (like me) arimidex/liquidex should be just fine. i did a boldione and 1-ad stack with no anti-e's (except for clomid therapy) and i had no gyno problems. yopu should be fine with .25mg ldex ed or even eod

 

[Spoud]

"I think there is a 1995 study by Klein KO, et al. that hinted at elevated E levels after 6 weeks of use (compared to initial suppression) that may be answered by higher aromatase production....but I don't know."


Full Circle,

Can you research and try to find that study?

 

[Spidey]

I was planning on using 1-AD (a prohormone-2cycles of 6weeks with 4week break between). 1-AD has been compared to EQ-similar chemical structures I believe. Now no posts like 'andros suck etc...' 1-AD is a good supp and very effective especially for me. Here's the deal it doesn't aromatize so when on you have lots of test and little or none converts to estrogen...
FHG

Here is a journal article you should read (copied from a reply to one of my posts by Nandi12):

J Appl Physiol 2002 Jan;92(1):142-6

Acute hormonal response to sublingual androstenediol intake in young men.

Brown GA, Martini ER, Roberts BS, Vukovich MD, King DS.

Exercise Biochemistry Laboratory, Department of Health and Human Performance, Iowa State University, Ames, Iowa 50011, USA.

The effectiveness of orally ingested androstenediol in raising serum testosterone concentrations may be limited because of hepatic breakdown of the ingested androgens. Because androstenediol administered sublingually with cyclodextrin bypasses first-pass hepatic catabolism, we evaluated the acute hormonal response to sublingual cyclodextrin androstenediol supplement in young men. Eight men (22.9 +/- 1.2 yr) experienced in strength training consumed either 20 mg androstenediol in a sublingual cyclodextrin tablet (Sl Diol) or placebo (Pl) separated by at least 1 wk in a randomized, double-blind, crossover manner. Blood samples were collected before supplementation and at 30-min intervals for 3 h after supplementation. Serum hormone concentrations did not change with Pl. Serum androstenedione concentrations were increased (P < 0.05) above baseline (11.2 +/- 1.1 nmol/l) with Sl Diol from 60 to 180 min after intake and reached a peak concentration of 25.2 +/- 2.9 nmol/l at 120 min. Serum free testosterone concentrations were increased from 86.2 +/- 9.1 pmol/l with Sl Diol from 30 to 180 min and reached a peak concentration of 175.4 +/- 12.2 pmol/l at 60 min. Serum total testosterone concentrations increased above basal (25.6 +/- 2.3 nmol/l) from 30 to 180 min with Sl Diol and reached a peak concentration of 47.9 + 2.9 nmol/l at 60 min. Serum estradiol concentrations were elevated (P < 0.05) above baseline (0.08 +/- 0.01 nmol/l) from 30 to 180 min with Sl Diol and reached 0.14 +/- 0.02 nmol/l at 180 min. These data indicate that sublingual cyclodextrin androstenediol intake increases serum androstenedione, free testosterone, total testosterone, and estradiol concentrations.

I point out that estradiol (estrogen) levels did indeed increase from 0.08 nmol/L to 0.14 nmol/L. This is an increase in estrogen levels 75% above baseline!! It would appear that your belief that 1-AD doesn't automatize or otherwise affect estrogen levels is incorrect.

I also refer you to a thread I posted not too long ago:

boards.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=165275

My serum testosterone concentrations DID NOT CHANGE significantly from before compared to 40 minutes after taking a 150 mg dose of androstenediol sublingually.

FYI, the molecular structures of ALL steroids are "somewhat similar".

good luck.

-Spidey