Posted by Barbara on August 17, 1998 at 02:17:07:
In Reply to: Re: Here are some more DNP related articles... posted by APF on March 14, 1997 at 15:20:25:
I'm not a bodybuilder, but I have been lifting heavy on the upper body. I seem to put on muscle fast. I'm an actress
and I have to get rid of this lower body fat. I've tried everything. My trainer friend is sending me the DNP
I really need to lose about 20# of fat. Any help/advice you can offer is greatly appreciated.
: Thought that while I was posting info on DNP, I'd post the following DejaNews-retrieved DNP articles from mfw:
: [Begin paste]
: DOES ANYONE KNOW WHERE TO GET DNP?
: I can get DNP but how much do you want and what
: are you willing to spend. At 3.5 mg/kg at 200lb
: man needs about 320mg DNP. You'd better have a fuckin'
: good scale because 10mg/kg will kill you. But then
: again I don't know why someone would want to take
: this because I would only cell it to a 'chemist'.
: I figure 10g would run you $30 plus shipping and
: handling which is probably $6.50. I have a shipment
: on the way. 10g should last you about a month.
:
: data from geninfo-lib
: PESTICIDE NAME: Dinoseb
: ______________
: Trade Name(s): Sinox, DNBP, Dyanap, Premerge, Amaize
: _____________
: Manufacturer(s): Hoechst AG(West Germany)
: _______________
: A.H. Marks & Co., Ltd. (Great Britain)
: I. Basic information
: __________________
: A. Molecular structure: C10H12N2O5
: ___________________
: B. Chemical name: 2-(sec-Butyl)-4,6-dinitrophenol
: _____________
: C. Derivatives: no information available
: ____________
: D. Molecular weight: 240 g/mole
: ________________
: E. Solubility in water: slightly soluble
: ___________________
: F. Common physical appearance: yellow flammable solid formulated as
: 1)oily solution of the free acid, 2)emulsifiable liquid of the covalent
: acetate, or 3)emulsifiable liquid of partly ionized amine or NH4+
: salts.
: G. Oral LD50(rat): 37-50 mg/kg
: ______________
: H. Pesticide classification: substituted phenolic herbicide
: ________________________
: I. Restricted use list (N.Y.): yes
: _________________________
: EPA priority pesticide list: no
: ___________________________
: J. Crop use: broadleaf weeds, nutsedge, annual grasses, apple,
: peach, pear, nectarine, apricot, cherry, plum, prune, grape, potato,
: annual weeds on beans, broadleaves and grasses under clear plastic
: mulch for cucumbers, muskmelon, watermelon, annual weeds on peas,
: potatoes, pumpkin
: II. Text
: ____
: Dinoseb is a substituted phenolic herbicide, widely used in New
: York state on a variety of fruit and vegetable crops. There is very
: little information in the scientific literature concerning dinoseb in
: the soil. It is considered to be of short residence time in the soil
: and there is some disagreement as to its mobility. Data concerning
: degradation rates was not available.
: Work by Lewis, et al. (1978) indicated that addition of dinoseb to
: loamy sand and silty clay loam soils did not affect CO2 evolution from
: the soil nor did it influence alfalfa decomposition thus it was
: concluded that dinoseb has no effect on microbial population.
: Additionally, dinoseb did not lessen the formation of inorganic N,
: P-solubilization or S-oxidation. Dinoseb did reduce the algal
: population in loamy sandy by 90%.
: III. Soils information
: _________________
: A. Degradation and transformation
: ______________________________
: -short residual in soil(1)
: B. Adsorption and transport
: ________________________
: -immobile(1)
: -mobility class IV where class V=very mobile(2)
: IV. References
: __________
: 1.Gardner, R.C. and R.L. McKellar. J.Agric.FoodChem. 1980. 28. 258-61.
: ________________
: 2.Helling, C.S., P.C. Kearney and M. Alexander. 1971. Advances in
: ___________
: Agronomy.23:147-240.
: ________
: 3.Hassall, K.A. 1982. The Chemistry of Pesticides.
: ___________________________
: Weinheim:VerlagChemie.
: 4.Lewis, J.A., G.C. Papavizas and T.S. Hora. 1978. Soil.Biol.Biochem.
: _________
: 10. 137-41.
:
: >I have received lots of E-mail over the last few days and have realized
: >the error of my ways. I apologize for not posting this info before. I'm
: >new to this newsgroup but not to bodybuilding. The JAMA you want is vol.
: >101, 1933 pg. 193. It looks like the safe dose is 3-5 mg/kg/day.
: >Metabolism returns to baseline within 36 hours after last dose as the
: >mitochondrial membranes are cleared of this chemical.
: >To buy it you could go to the library and get a book called chem sources
: >and look up dinitrophenol. Call all the companies that make it and order
: >what you think is the best deal based on purity, shipping costs (shipping
: >it with water is cheaper because it reduces the flammability), and price.
: >I have seen 250 grams for $8 on up.
: >If you are an idiot (the more frustrated you become when you try to do
: >anything that involves your brain, the more of an idiot you are) then
: >don't do this. Because idiots seldom respond to requests like this, it
: >has gotten much more difficult to get chemicals from the major companies.
: >Don't tell them you are going to eat whatever they send you! Tell them the
: >DNP is for research. For example:
: >1 - I am studying benzene ring substitution reaction mechanisms
: >2 - I am elucidating the mechanism for uncoupling oxidative
: >phosphorylation in mitochondria in yeast for crying out loud!
:
: Ok folks you wanted it you got it. Go for it. But write your will
: beforehand just to be safe.
:
: PA
: : Ion channels are membrane proteins that control the flux of ions : KATP channels exist in most excitable cells. They are regulated by : Thus, the KATP channel couples nutrient metabolism to the membrane : o Increase in blood glucose -> increase in glucose metabolism -> : o Channel CLOSED: cell depolarized, Ca++ uptake, insulin exocytosis. : KATP channels play an important role in the control of vascular : o KATP channel BLOCKED -> vascular tone increases. : o KATP channel ACTIVATED -> vascular tone decreases. : Besides being regulated by intracellular signals, potassium channels : o KATP BLOCKED -> more strength : o KATP ACTIVATED -> less strength : Drugs which block KATP channels: tolbutamide, glyburide, glibenclamide. : Drugs which activate KATP channels: Prostaglandin E2 and I2, adenosine, : Drugs which activate K channels: pinacidil, cromakalim. : Mitochondria also contain a K+ channel that causes rapid K+ uptake : DNP : What happens when someone takes the decoupler dinitrophenol (DNP)? : Insulin is needed to facilitate the uptake of glucose into cardiac, : This is why, when one takes DNP, one also needs to take exogenous : Since the KATP channel remains open, vascular and muscular tone : It would seem that an antidote for DNP might be anything that causes : : Well, since the Bodyopus experience has been put on temporary hold (I'll : Now, before I start, a caveat: I am in no way endorsing the use of this : DNP can fucking kill you. The side effects range from bad to worse. : Ok, time to get off the soapbox. : I have actually had the DNP for a while but only got around to using it : Ok, so dried the shit, cut it half and half with corn starch and put it into : Had some left over cytomel in the drug droor in my room which is a necessary : Ok, so I started the DNP experiment last Sunday. I was kind of scared to : Now, I had originally planned to use DNP in conjunction with Bodyopus since : is that it makes you just crave carbs. I have been following a cyclical : But, I couldn't stay away from carbs. I'd be ok during the day but I'd : So, on Wednesday, I moved towards a calorie controlled (about 2000 cal) : My second realization about DNP is that, as I expected, it makes you lethargic : So, like the dumbass I am, I figured I'd see what taking the ECA stack : The net effect of DNP is a depressant although it's not through central nervous : Ok, I was feeling really bad by Thursday. DNP stays in your system (according : Anyway, like I said, I had lots o'DNP and some ECA in my system Thursday. : So, the body composition record. : Holy Shit! With minimal dieting (hell, no dieting), maybe 30' total of cardio : So, here's the plan for the next few weeks. I really don't want to do another : Oh, my Bodyopus things are finally archived although it's not my WWW page. : My stuff is at: www.solid.net/lowcarb : Lyle McDonald, CSCS (if my CEU report gets to NSCA headquarters in time) : >With all due respect, Lyle, don't you think adding more LBM might be a : Actually the combination of DNP and Humalin R would allow : -APF
: Subject: DNP, Insulin, and ATP-sensitive Potassium channels
: From: [email protected] (Robert Ames)
: Date: 1996/07/08
: Message-Id: <8JL4xgxyYk/[email protected]>
: Organization: Internet Canada Corporation
: Reply-To: Robert Ames
: Newsgroups: misc.fitness.weights
: Article Segment 1 of 2
: (Get All 2 Segments)
: [Some of the following is speculative. Caveat lector.]
: across an otherwise impermeable cell membrane. Potassium (K)
: channels were first decribed by Noma [1] in 1983, and later in 1991
: the ATP-sensitive K channel (KATP) was described by the same
: researcher [2]. Potassium channels determine cell membrane potential.
: the intracellular level of ATP as well as by various nucleotide
: diphosphates, pH and lactate concentrations. The activity of KATP
: channels is inhibited by increasing the intracellular ATP
: concentration. Closure of these channels in response to glucose
: metabolism depolarises the cell, stimulating voltage-dependent
: electrical activity, and calcium ion (Ca) entry. In the pancreatic
: beta cells, an increase in blood sugar level leads to an elevated
: ATP/ADP ratio, which in turn inhibits KATP channels, so as to alter
: the membrane potential and cause insulin release. It is accompanied
: by increases in respiratory rate, pyridine and flavin nucleotide
: reduction state, and intracellular pH [3].
: potential.
: increase in intracell ATP -> inhibition of KATP channel.
: tone [4]. Polarization following potassium channel activation
: (opening) results in lessened calcium influx and smooth muscle
: relaxation.
: may also be regulated by membrane potential. Thus, in excitable
: cells in the heart, muscle, and nervous system, voltage-gated
: potassium channels are activated during an action potential; the
: activities of these potassium channels determine to a large extent
: the shape of the action potential, hence the strength of the
: signaling.
: lemakalim.
: when open [5].
: ===
: Blood glucose will result in increased metabolism, but the level of
: ATP in the cell does not increase! In fact, it is depleted. So in
: this case, the KATP channel is not inhibited, and it stays open.
: Calcium is not taken into the cell, and insulin is not released.
: The person taking DNP has in effect given himself temporary
: diabetes.
: skeletal, and adipose tissue, and to convert glucose to glycogen in
: the liver. It is anti-proteolytic and protects against the various
: ailments commonly seen in diabetics, such as vision problems and
: polyneuropathy. Not coincidentally, the same problems can result
: from ingesting DNP.
: insulin.
: relax. Probably blood pressure will decrease. Strength will
: diminish.
: the KATP channel to close, for example the drug glibenclamide.
: References:
:
: Subject: My DNP experience
: From: [email protected] (Lyle McDonald)
: Date: 1997/01/04
: Message-Id:
: Newsgroups: misc.fitness.weights
: [More Headers]
: get one out there before too long), how about the first installment of my
: DNP experience.
: potentially deadly chemical to anybody. I used it because:
: 1. I'm a guinea pig
: b. I'm fucking stupid and self-destructive right now over a recent
: relationship that ended a week or two ago (it's a long ass story but
: for 4 weeks I was dating an exotic dancer whose martial arts instructor,
: bodybuilders, could stomp yours truly into the ground ex-boyfriend I
: work with. Like I said, a long story)
: c. I had some and didn't want to let it go to waste
: Duchaine is suggesting combining it with insulin making this stack
: potentially the most dangerous in the world of bodybuilding as either
: chemical can kill you with one fuckup. DO NOT TAKE DNP LIGHTLY OR
: AS A JOKE. If you have any doubts or concerns about taking it, do me
: a favor, DON'T. This isn't a game.
: due to the afforementioned relationship situation. So, I got a capsule
: filler at the local granola head store, got a gram scale at the smoke shop
: (where all fine drug paraphenalia are sold). Actually, finding an accurate
: scale was the hardest part of this whole thing. I called every school supply
: store in the city and nobody knew where to get one. Then it ocurred to me:
: hey, who else uses gram scales? Drug dealers, that's who. And, who sells
: drug related stuff? Smoke shops. Balance beam scales are fucking
: expensive, about $150 for the lowest model. I got the $30 50 gram model
: since I can't imagine weighing out 500 grams of anything.
: capsules as instructed. Now I have a vitamin E bottle filled with
: 10 grams of DNP which is enough for about 25 days straight useage at
: 400mg per dose.
: additive as the body temp increase from DNP totally shuts down T4 -> T3
: conversion in the liver. But, using Cytomel + DNP won't make you go
: hypothyroidal since you are just bringing yourself up to normal levels.
: take that first pill since I did know what I was potentially getting myself
: into with this shit. But, I must forge ahead. After stalling about 10', I
: finally
: just walked into my room (2 DNP capsules sitting on my bedstand) and slammed
: them down without thinking about it. No fear, right? Took 100 mcg of Cytomel
: along with it.
: it's a diet I know I can live with. My first realization about DNP (other than
: a. you sweat like a fucking pig. I had to run a fan in my room to keep from
: spontaneously combusting and woke up every morning this week with
: my sheets soaked in sweat. Now there are good ways and bad ways to soak
: one's sheets with sweat. This wasn't a good way.
: b. you stink like a fucking goat. The worst is training. It's like I was
: exuding
: this shit from my pores, a very chemical smell. Now, I have a pretty potent
: smell anyhow when I train but this was a new level of stench. I'm surprised
: my clients could put up with any of it.)
: ketogenic
: diet for over 36 weeks with no food control problems whatsoever during the
: week. I've starved myself on 900 calories no problem. Carbs don't even
: enter my mind from Sunday night to Friday afternoon under normal
: circumstances. And, seeing as I spent 2 weeks off of Bodyopus eating crap
: over the holidays, all my carb cravings were well satiated.
: get these
: cravings at midnight (taking DNP about 10 pm before bed) and go raid the pantry.
: Well, 75% fat calories and high carbs do not mix. I asked Duchaine and he told
: me that DNP raises levels of Neuropeptide Y (NPY) in the brain which causes
: carb cravings so I have to conclude that DNP + ketogenic diets do not mix.
: Isocaloric/Zone type of diet which worked much better. I still tend to overeat
: carbs and cals but, when your metabolic rate is up 50%, it's really not that
: big a deal.
: as hell. DNP works by depleting Type I fibers of ATP so you have no energy for
: anything low intensity (although training is generally not affected
: assuming that
: you can drag your ass to the gym in the first place). I just felt
: shitty. Also, DNP
: does not blunt hunger like ECA. But, again, at 50% increase in BMR, eating a
: couple hundred more calories is no big deal.
: would do to
: me. My biggest fear was raising body temp too high. ECA/Clen and DNP work
: through independent mechanisms and I wondered if the body temp increases
: would be synergistic or not. I don't think they were but it was an interesting
: experience.
: system modulation. ECA is a major CNS stimulant. Also, to be a real dumbfuck,
: I added some yohimbe fuel to keep alpha receptors in check since ECA has some
: alpha agonist activity as well (NB: overstimulating alpha agonists has a major,
: major side effect. It makes your dick not work. I found this out the
: hard (err,
: soft) way. Just be warned).
: to Robert Ames) for 36 hours so I'm not convinced that Dan's dosing schedule
: (every 24 hours) is ideal as there is a 12 hour period when you have twice
: the recommended dose active in your body. But, this makes a nice failsafe to
: avoid nasty side effects: nobody can take DNP more than 5 days straight
: because you get tired of feeling like total shit all the time. It's possible
: that dosing every 36 hours would allow you to take it indefinitely but this
: isn't necessarily a good thing as the negative effects of constant ATP depletion
: (like cataracts which apparently occurs from ATP depletion in your eyes) would
: increase with time. So a dose every 24 might be ideal.
: And I was drinking a lot of diet coke so caffeine intake was massive. And I
: was severely dehydrated from sweating so much and DNP blunts your thirst
: mechanism. All of this added up to giving me a resting heart rate of 132
: (that's not a typo) beats per minute. I didn't get my blood pressure measured
: but I"m sure it was high. I'm surprised I didn't have a fucking stroke. I
: probably deserved to have one just for being a dumbass (nature's way of
: thinning the herd. Darwinism at work for you).
: Day Date Wt Pec Abs SI Thigh Sum3 BF% FM FFM
: ---------------------------------------------------------
: Mon 12/30 156 3 22 13 6 31 8.5 13.3 142.7
: Fri 1/3 151 3 18 12 6 27 7.6 11.4 139.6
: (warm-up and cool down before weights), about 2.5 hours total of weight
: training this week, I still dropped almost 2 lbs of bodyfat. Now, the decrease
: in lean body mass is somewhat worrisome but I attribute most of it to
: dehydration. Since I was stronger on Friday than on Monday (same workout,
: heavier poundages, same reps), I don't feel that I lost any of the small amount
: of LBM I have. I don't really look like I lost that much fat but, seeing
: as most
: of what I've got is smack dab on my midsection, I'm not too surprised. This is
: where the biggest change in skinfolds happened anyway which is fine with me.
: I'm still not quite to cut abs but I'm getting there.
: cycle of DNP just yet (esp since I don't have that much and haven't had time
: to figure out where to get more). So, I figure it this way. I know I can
: use Bodyopus with some ass kicking training in the gym to put on a decent
: amount of LBM each week with minimal fat gain. So, I figure on doing a week
: or three of Bodyopus training at above maintenance calories to put on a pound
: or two of lean with maybe .5 lbs of fat. Then, I can use DNP or dieting to
: cut down for a week or two and sort of stair step down in bodyfat while
: increasing in muscle mass. I had considered doing 1 week of mass training
: with Bodyopus alternated with 1 week of dieting with DNP and isocaloric
: but I'm not sure the body can switch gears like that so quickly. We'll see.
: Thanks to Dave Skinner (who started the lowcarb-l list for discussion of
: training on lowcarb diets like BO/AD or the Zone and put my stuff on a page.)
: To subscribe to the lowcarb-l list (Jeff Krabbe is there as well) send
: email to "[email protected]" with the message 'subscribe' in the body.
:
: Subject: Re: My DNP experience
: From: [email protected] (DDuchaine)
: Date: 1997/01/09
: Message-Id: <[email protected]>
: Newsgroups: misc.fitness.weights
: [More Headers]
: >better way to increase metabolism than taking DNP?
: both (mass and fat loss). And for some (as yet) unexplained
: there seems to be a significant muscle mass increase when
: ceasing DNP. One user gained 30 pounds within 2 weeks
: and less than 10 pounds was fat. One postulation is an
: increase of mitochandia in the skeletal muscle.
: [End Paste]