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Author Topic:   Xenadrine: Good or Bad?
bettsund

Novice

Posts: 4
From:Minneapolis, MN
Registered: Jan 2001

posted January 30, 2001 06:28 PM

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Hi everyone, I have been using Xenadrine for about 7 months now on and off. I was wondering what you guys know about how it effects your thyroid gland (metabolism, heart rate) in a LONG TERM BASIS.
I know a lot about the short term effects like increased heart rate, increased metabolism, et cetera. I am familiar with cycling the substance and do follow this. I cycle it 8 weeks on and 2-3 weeks off. Any advice would be appreciated.


For people that dont know about xenadrine, it is a thermogenic supplement that claims to promote "Rapid fat loss."
If anyone is thinking about using Xenadrine, I would highly recommend it from the results that I have recieved. I have noticed great effects when i combine it with REGULAR exercise, and a HEALTHY diet. As always, I would INSIST that you go and talk to you doctor about using it. Everyone's body will have different side effects and for some, it simply may not help at all. For some people with heart problems, it will only exacerbate your situation, and could be very harmful.
Thanks for the help,
-Phil


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johnny iron

Amateur Bodybuilder

Posts: 87
From:chicago, il
Registered: Nov 2000

posted January 30, 2001 09:07 PM

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8 weeks on and 2-3 weeks off!! Dude, slow down! Any thermogenic should never be used for longer than 6 weeks at the MAX. Each serving of Xenadrine if I remember correctly, has 200mg of caffeine. If you're using it twice a day, that's 400mg of caffeine a day (quite a bit). Not to mention the addition of synephrine and ephedrine (i think that was in there too). Long term effects are you'll end up frying your receptors, and your body won't respond to a thermogenic nearly as much as it is now. I know a guy who used a thermogenic 9 months out of the year when he was in his mid twenties and now in his early 30's, he can pop Xenadrine like there candy. He usually takes double the amount of any recommended label dosage just to notice ANY effect. Do yourself a favor and use it only when necessary, focus more on fine tuning your diet. Thermogenics tend to be a crutch.


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bettsund

Novice

Posts: 4
From:Minneapolis, MN
Registered: Jan 2001

posted January 30, 2001 10:03 PM

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Thanks johnny iron for the reply. I only use one serving in the morning(two capsules), and most people that i talk to recommend an 8x2 cycle. I also have a good diet, drink A LOT of water, and exercise almost daily.

Any other opinions???


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Sniperwolf

Amateur Bodybuilder

Posts: 91
From:Tokyo, Japan
Registered: Dec 2000

posted January 30, 2001 10:12 PM

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This is an article that I have cut and pasted from ironmag.com which will go against what many people believe.

One of the most common questions I see on the world wide web's new bodybuilding population involves the ECA stack and fat burning. Most likely through printed magazines or mass market bodybuilding sites aimed at beginner bodybuilders like Musclemag.com or Elite Fitness (two sites I now avoid completely) I find the theories of cycling ECA with some odd "cycling patterns". Some bodybuilders favor a two day on, two day off cycle; others say that receptor downgrade occurs after 2 weeks; and still other's quote longer times of 2 months. Well they're all wrong. Yes the notion that you have to cycle ECA or it's fat burning effects will dwindle to nothing are simply not true.

To understand why it's not necessary to design elaborate (and ineffective) cycles for ECA, one must look at it's primary ingredient, ephedrine (the herbal forms being ma huang or sida cordefolia) and how it works.

Ephedrine works by stimulating the release of noradrenaline, which stimulates all the adrenergic receptors. The stimulant side effects subside because they are primarily mediated by the beta-1 and beta-2 receptors, which downregulate during chronic use. Previous thought was that catecholamines mobilize energy-rich lipids by stimulating lipolysis in fat cells and thermogenesis in brown adipose tissue and skeletal muscle. Originally, these effects were believed to be only mediated by (beta)1- and (beta)2-adrenergic receptors. However there is also an additional adrenergic receptor, (beta)3, that is involved as well. Pharmacologically, the (beta)3-adrenergic receptor differs from the (beta)1- and (beta)2-adrenergic receptors in two important ways (2): it has a lower affinity for catecholamines, and it resists desensitization (i.e., down-regulation).

In the past scientists screened drugs for their thermogenic potential, and during tests on non-selective adrenergic drugs like ephedrine, some studies showed that the thermogenic effect of ephedrine was maintained and even increased with long term use. It was found that agonists for post-synaptic adrenoceptors were found to be much less effective in chronically enhancing thermogenesis and fat losses than sympathetic stimulants capable of increasing the synaptic levels of noradrenaline. As we all know studies done have shown that that a combination of ephedrine (20 mg) and caffeine (200 mg) taken orally three times a day in combination with a low calorie diet improves weight loss for 24 weeks. However what is not noted in most articles or literature about ECA is that the combination can maintain or slightly improve weight loss during treatment from the time after 26 weeks.

This discovery led to further studies in the hopes of uncovering an undiscovered receptor involved in noradrenaline-induced thermogenesis. The scientists found that even after blocking all the known adrenergic receptors non-selective drugs like ephedrine still caused a significant thermogenic effect. Eventually, this led to the discovery of the beta 3 receptor that, as mentioned above is more resistant to downregulation than the other beta receptors. This is why the thermogenic effect of ECA is maintained so well during long term use. This discovery effectively shows that cycling of ECA is simply wrong.

Now I'm going to explain just why the thermogenic effects of ECA actually increase with long term use. I really only need two words. Brown Fat.

Brown fat (adipose) tissue is sometimes mistaken for a type of gland, which it resembles more than white adipose tissue. It varies in color from dark red to tan, reflecting lipid content. Its lipid reserves are depleted when the animal is exposed to a cold environment, and the color darkens. In contrast to white fat, brown fat is richly vascularized and has numerous unmyelinated nerves which provide sympathetic stimulation to the adipocytes. Brown fat is of particular importance in cold environments, and animals that hibernate, because it has the ability to dissipate stored energy as heat. In contrast to other cells, including white adipocytes, brown adipocytes express mitochondrial uncoupling protein, which gives the cell's mitochondria an ability to uncouple oxidative phosphorylation and utilize substrates to generate heat rather than ATP. Exposure to cold leads to sympathetic stimulation of brown adipocyte via norepinephrine binding to beta- adrenergic receptors. As in white fat, sympathetic stimulation promotes hydrolysis of triglyceride, with release of fatty acids and glycerol. However, within brown adipocytes, most fatty acids are immediately oxidized in mitochondria and, because of the uncoupling protein, a large amount of heat is produced. This process is part of what is called non-shivering thermogenesis.

Beta-3 receptor sites are found predominantly in brown adipose tissue. We know that rats and mice have large areas of fat that are exclusively made of brown fat to help them regulate their body temperature, in the interscapular region and the axillae, and minor amounts are found near the thymus and in the dorsal midline region of the thorax and abdomen. During maturation, in non-hibernating animals, brown adipose tissue is metabolically less active, although cold exposure can activate it. Newborn human babies have distinct areas of brown fat. Adult humans though don't have a lot of distinct brown fat. However the key with brown adipose tissue in adults, is that it is scattered about the more common white fat in a diffuse manner - especially around the viscera, and that each of these small deposits of brown fat actually adds up to a large amount. The beta-3 receptor found in brown fat is responsible for burning off fat in the midsection of the body.

Long term use of the ECA stack does lead to beta-2 downregulation. It does not cause rapid desensitization and/or down-regulation of adrenergic receptors, however after about 4 months it will cause the beta-2 receptors on muscle and fat cells will be drawn into the cell membrane to reduce their availability. This is the cause of the loss of stimulatory effects associated with the ECA stack. However, thermogenesis is actually increasing through beta-3 receptor stimulation.

I recommned adjusting your dosing schedule of ECA to every 2 hours during the first 4 months. This will enhance the duration and consistency of beta-adrenergic activity. Don't forget adjust the amount you take each time in order to maintain the total amount taken over the course of a day. It has been demonstrated, that when you infuse beta agonists with short half-lives, you can elicit the anabolic activity, that is similar to the anabolic activity of clenbuterol. Muscle preservation through the use of ephedrine is negigable over long term use. This is most likely the only valid reason for the cycling of ECA. As a fat loss catalyist though, there is no reason.

After four months switch back to your usual 3 times a day dosage. You can continue to burn fat for as long as you use ECA.



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lawnsaver

Elite Bodybuilder

Posts: 1412
From:FL
Registered: Sep 2000

posted January 31, 2001 12:56 AM

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lipokenetics is the best

------------------

" That which does not kill me, will make me stronger"

"Catch a man a fish, he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish, and he eats for a lifetime."


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T-REX

Cool Novice

Posts: 25
From:Texas
Registered: Jun 2000

posted January 31, 2001 12:18 PM

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So sniperwolfe,
are you saying for us that are currently taking ECA 3 times a day should bump it up approx.. 6x a day for a few months? I am just getting back into the seriousness of the work out life style again. I just wanted to make sure I heard this correct. That seems like a high dosage of Caffiene and Ephedrine. I am not questioning you in any way, I am just trying to learn from your article, So please dont take any offense. I have lost approx 12 lbs in the last 3 months and if you are recommending bumping up my dosages I will give it a try, I just dont want to do something opposite of what you said and mess myself up.


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Sniperwolf

Amateur Bodybuilder

Posts: 91
From:Tokyo, Japan
Registered: Dec 2000

posted January 31, 2001 09:18 PM

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I don't want to give you misleading information and end up messing you up. However, I didn't write the article I just cut and pasted it from irongman.com who in my opinion are the most reliable site for bodybuilding information on the web because they are not involved with any supplements. If you go to their site and send them a question regarding whatever you need to know in regard to dosages I sure they will give you all the information you need. From the article it would appear that you don't need to cycle the ECA and you can continue taking for as long as you want due to the reasons outlined. In my advice these guys are very knowledgable and I would take their advice anyday over something that is written in a BB magazine.


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T-REX

Cool Novice

Posts: 25
From:Texas
Registered: Jun 2000

posted February 01, 2001 10:14 AM

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Thanks, for the Link, It will be put to use


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